You're Already Communicating (Just Not What You Think)

You've probably fixed the visible stuff. Rewritten the copy. Updated the visuals. Tweaked the content, and it still feels like something's off. In this episode, I dig into the gap that most founders never get named for them. The distance between what your brand intends to communicate and what people actually receive before logic even kicks in. I then cover why most brand problems live at the pre-conscious layer, why AI can't diagnose what you haven't identified yet, the difference between brand strategy and marketing execution (and why confusing the two keeps you spinning), and a real client example that shows exactly how shifting the right layer changed everything. 

If you've been solving at the surface, this is where to start.

Free Guide: The Market Shift. Go get it.

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Transcript

Welcome And Naming The Gap

SPEAKER_00 0:03

You're listening to Brand and Butter, for straight talking, occasionally in your face, no BS, branding podcast for modern marketers and business owners. For those who want to understand the influence and power of branding and how pairing association with consumer behaviour and design thinking can impact what people see, think and feel. I'm your host, Ara Ladd, for sometimes funny, sometimes vulnerable, and often unapologetically blunt, founder and creative director of Brand and Design Agency, your one and only. Hi hi, welcome to this week's episode. I took a week off last week, mainly because it was just a big week, and I was like, you know what, we can hit pause this week. And I'm kicking back off this week. But I've got my list down because you know what I'm like. If you haven't heard before, I go off on a bit of a tangent sometimes with this ADHD brain of mine. So I have a little bit of a list to make sure I stay on track. It's like a slap on the wrist, stay on tune. But I want to basically have the conversation today about naming a gap that you may not have a word for. And I think this is where a lot of people are. I've had these conversations so many times within the last couple of weeks, where I think before people realize that they've got a problem, they need to be able to obviously identify it. And so that's my job to be able to say, hey, you're not shit, or you know, this isn't what's happening right now. What you really need to be focused on is over here. And so what I think a lot of people are doing is it's not that they don't know. I think for the most part, I still need to clarify that brand is obviously more than logos, colours, and fonts, but it's also more than the message you have above the fold on your website too. And it's about being well, it's about being able to read the general gist of what your brand would say to someone in less than 100 milliseconds. You're probably like, oh my god, like judgments are formed, and I think it's 0.7 seconds. So that comes from preconceived ideas and notions that they have, and this is individualized. So if someone has come from a very different environment to you, they are going to see the world vastly different. This is why cultures have different viewpoints of the world, and there is no right way of doing it. We assume things are right because it's our way of doing things, but it is very much about understanding the dynamic and who you're targeting because this is why cultural appropriation comes in. You know, making sure that if you are targeting a broad range of people and from different cultures and different backgrounds, which we are now with the internet, that's just what happens. You need to take into consideration different ways of marketing. And so this is why these, this is why things feel quite hard for people, because we're now wrapping up behavior into the way that we execute marketing. We're wrapping up psychology and belief systems and biases, and people are not ready for that. So when we're talking about what attracts people, a cut like a colour is different. You could go into a room where people love the colour orange, and you can go into another room and people hate the colour orange. And it doesn't matter what you think about it, if it's attracting the right audience for what you need, then maybe the colour orange is the one to use. That's a whole different, that's a whole colour theory issue. But it's also about the underlying meaning of those colours. That's what well beyond what we're talking about. But I guess most founders have never found their brand cold. And what I mean by that is you're seeing it and you will always see it. If you're a founder, a marketer, or you're someone that's working closely with the brand itself, you're always going to feel really close to that brand because you've got a perception of what you want it to be. So you're looking at it like aspirationally, like you're looking at it from what you want it to be. This is a lot of people think like this with future project, what we want to be. And so we're not actually seeing what the brand is now. And we're seeing what we what we're wanting to kind of get to instead of where we where we are right now and the messages and signals that we're sending out to people. And so I would say this is where research comes in and getting people to give their opinions and perspectives. But even then, that someone that's come across your stuff before is still a warm, a warm view or a warm vision, what do we call them? A view, a warm reader, or whatever you call it, audience. That's probably the right word. And they're still seeing it from their own perspective of what they know about you. So it's really kind of important that you can suss out people that have never seen you before and say, like, hey, what is your first opinion when you see this brand? What does it say to you? And that's going to shape the true perception. Because even people that know you are going to know things about you, and therefore that's going to influence their choice, which is the whole point of marketing, by the way. It's to build that relationship. And brand is to create the anyway, we'll talk about that in a second. But when we're talking about the gap, that's the gap. It's between what you intend and what actually lands. And most people are looking at the wrong layer, and it's usually where the positioning lives. So today I want to dive into this subject because it's about problem identification. And what we're seeing is that a lot of people are typing in their problem onto, I don't know, into AI maybe, and hoping to that it will, I was gonna say hi, means of God, that it gives them some kind of answer. And what it will do is give you the answer to the question you've asked. So if you've asked the wrong question, it's not going to give you the response that you need. And most of the time, you need someone that knows what they're doing to be able to identify those areas. And even someone, not that not that they know what they're doing, maybe someone that just isn't familiar with what you're doing, and therefore they're able to come at it from a different angle. I remember when I was learning, um, what was it? What's the subject? Oh, it was art direction back in 2009 when I was at an agency. I did it through ad school. And we were at one of the agencies, and they were talking about one of their award-winning campaigns they did. It was a campaign with car um for NRMA, I think. And they just basically had like bits and pieces of the car all put together, won heaps of awards. But the person that came up with that idea was their receptionist. So she walked past, and I can't remember what exactly happened, but she said something like, Oh, why don't you do this? And they were like, That's a brilliant idea. So the ideas don't always have to come from the creative team, but sometimes it can come from a fresh mind of being able to look at things from a very different angle, which is why it's really important to get outsider opinion. If you're just working by yourself, and I've found this when I was working on your one and only, just on my own, it can get really siloed. You need that outside kind of creative process to channel your thinking. And that can be with a client, that can be with another creative, that can be with hell, just a friend, but it's like seshing that idea, like throwing your ideas out. AI isn't like it can work, but in a lot of instances, unless you know what you're asking it, it's not gonna give you the right response. It's like a doctor writing a symptom for something that you don't even know exists because you haven't got that level of experience. So you're not gonna go write in what a veteran doctor would write in because you're only gonna go by what your symptoms tell you. And unless you're able to analy like analyze the symptoms, like you're not gonna know what to prompt it. This is what I keep saying. Everyone's a pro for a reason, and it's important that we need to continue that human connection. I love AI, don't get me wrong. I love AI for being able to like really decipher when what I'm saying to it, but my thinking is my own. I will give it like essay prompts and say, this is what I'm doing, this, and it will just structure or like be like, you've got three different things going on here. That's what I think it's really good for. Just pulling apart my brain and being able to be like, okay, let's focus on one thing here, which is great for ADHD. For everything else, like, you know, I wouldn't expect it to know what I know because I've there's like multiple crossovers, and well, not it doesn't know, but do you know what I mean? Like, you you have to be able to prompt it. Like, someone else is not going to prompt what I prompt because of my lived experience. And I think this is a thing that people need to understand. So most people think that their brand is a messaging problem, and usually they'll rewrite it, um, and it will still, I guess, fall flat, not work. And the reason that it keeps um not working isn't the messaging. It's because you haven't actually dived to the right layer to know what it is that you need to be saying to the audience. Um, I've got my list here of things I need to talk to uh to make sure I don't go off on my little tangent. So what I've written down here are a few things like um symbols and colours and imagery, they are part of the messaging system. They're the visual messaging system. So when we talk about messaging, we're not just talking about visuals, also, we're talking about movement. So if you've got video, you're talking about the way things are cut, you're talking about the type of language that you'd be using within the video and the script that you would use and the way that you um, I guess where it's shot. Like all of these things come into play with subtle cues, you know. If you're sitting in a high luxury apartment building and you say nothing, you've already said a perception, right? You're in a suit, high level, you look that's that's the the look you're going for. Probably like a high real estate commercial agent, like whatever you want to be, like there. Or, you know, you've got those perceptions, and then you've got someone that just would be probably dressed like me, which would be a bit creative, like, you know, not looking 100% um downstreet, narrow of a suit. I might have sneakers on, like there's that urban vibe to it, and it will give you that element of, ah, you know, professional, but got an edge. And these are the things that are really important, either way you dress, what you look like. Unfortunately, that's the world that we live in, and people make stereotypes and generalizations based on what we already know. So, this is what we need to understand with brands. So, the way that I would say it is humanized attributes of what you would put into people is very similar to how you would brand a business. A personal brand is a little bit different because you are the person itself. So, how you look and what you dress like and how you speak and what you talk to is very much you as a person. I find personal branding hard because I have so many things I want to talk about. I don't want to be stuck in a box. And that's why I think a lot of people have problems with personal branding is because it's multi-layered. Whereas when we talk about business branding, there's usually kind of a set precedent that you want to talk about. My opinion, it should be very clear on what it is that you offer and what it is that you do, and the type of people that would work there. And so all of that ricochets out. So when we're talking about choosing symbols and colours and imagery, they they all run like a subconscious layer. People are already forming opinions based on those selections that you've made. And it's this processing before that, I guess the logic kind of kicks in for people. And it needs to, and that's, I guess, when people say it needs to feel right, that's that's what that means. And so this is happening because nobody's really telling anyone that they're making positioning decisions. And I think it's just purely because there's been a really misconstrued understanding of what business means, what marketing means, what brand means. And look, marketing still speaks to positioning um heavily, but when we're also building out the brand strategy, positioning is in that. And that then dictates. So the way that I see it is that business needs to be viable. You look at on paper, uh, it needs to be working. These are your spreadsheets, this is your viabilities, your profits and loss, like everything that you would put on a spreadsheet, like your accountant team, right? And your planning team. Then you look at brand, which is which is who you want that, what you want that brand to mean to people. Like who are you targeting here? Uh, how are you trying to attract them? Um, what kind of persona do you want to have? Like you could be a really fun and out there accountant, or you could be a really straight and narrow accountant, and that can completely change the way that you position yourself. Who gives a crap did this really well in a in the toilet paper segment, the category. And, well, I guess in that category they've moved to obviously hand towels and things like that. But that's the that's exactly the idea I'm trying to push forward is that they just wrapped personality around what would be an otherwise boring category and stood out based on that. The product matched in terms of viability, and then they just started to what I call value stack. So they had obviously sustainable intentions, it's a social enterprise, uh, they give back, you know, all of that type of stuff. And then they made a really fun-looking visual identity with a really fun, personality-driven voice. And that's how they showed up. And leaps and bounds are vastly different from any competitor in their space. So obviously, people would go to them based on who they are as a person, and we identity align. You know, if you're someone, there are people that don't like the name of their business. Who gives a crap? Why would you call your business that? So obviously, they're not the target. But this is a really important thing to understand when you are developing the brand strategy that these are the things that you need to take into consideration. Positioning and uh, I guess in terms of marketing comes out later when you're trying to dedicate a message to a specific audience and you need to then cater the message to target them, right? I just said that twice. But basically, you've already got the plan done. The execution of the plan is the marketing. So the brand strategy is, you know, what it is that who you are and what you stand for. And then the execution of that strategy is the marketing aspect. And then the brand marketing aspect. So when you're talking about the brand and strategic growth, so you're not making a sale, that's strategic brand marketing, right? It's awareness. It's brand awareness. Sorry, just choked on myself. Brand awareness, it's visibility, it's getting people to know you, that trust building, that's brand marketing. Now, tactical marketing is your product, it's selling your product, it's the uh features and benefits, it's all of those things, and the two work hand in hand. So one builds the trust, one builds the sales, and they come together to do the thing, right? So, this is what people are not under. I did a really good episode with Beck Chapel, who's a marketing strategist, um, earlier on. You can go and find that conversation. It's called, I think it's called strategic versus tactical marketing. It's earlier on, but it's a really good one, it's one of the highest ones that we've ever done I've ever done because I just don't think people understand that. And this is why brand matters more than every anything at the moment. Because as we see the world becoming more competitive, and I think it's always been competitive, but it's just the way that we can be competitive now has diversified so much that you can be on different platforms and therefore reach different people and therefore where you market's diluted. So you have to be really specific on where you place yourself because if you you are everywhere, you dilute the message because you're trying to be everywhere. But if you nail down on a few really good ones where your audience are, where your audience is, you will target them. That's positioning. Put yourself in the place where your audience is. Obviously, it's placement part of positioning, but being in the place where your audience are is, oh, can't speak today. That's the important part that you need to understand. Now, we also talk about your differentiation and how you differ to those other people, which is you could see that very clearly with who gives a crap. And therefore, people are able to say who gives a crap are really funny. They're out there, they're they're a social enterprise, they give back, and the audience are able to tell you how they're different. That's the difference. If someone can't tell you how you differ from everyone else in that category, then you have a positioning problem, which is in most cases. Everyone thinks they're different. Like, how are you different? We do this, we're a quality, or we we have, you know, really good product. Yeah, snooze, you should. Like, that's the difference. Unless you're like Timu or Sheen or something like that. And then you've got that's a positioning thing. They're all about cheap, fast. And then if you're someone that you know doesn't like fast fashion, you're never gonna buy from them. I don't buy from them. That's my opinion. Um, but that's how it works, right? And so then values come into the way that you buy stuff. This is a thing that people need to be paying attention to because brand has never been more important. So every visual choice is a meaning choice, like what they're looking at. So when we're talking about the way that people perceive things, it's 50% visual. 50% visual might be 60% visual. Might need to double check those stats, but there's like a portion, right? Largely visual, unless you're visually impaired, obviously. And then there's what you say, and then it's how you say it. So it's like what you say is next, how you say it again. So you you know, the way that you conduct a tone is really important as well. So these are the things, or even the way you write it, it's it's indicative of how someone perceives you. And so when we're looking at these choices, and we're choosing colours or we're choosing messaging, and it hasn't gone that deep, we're only gonna get a surface-level response. And everyone's like, why isn't it working? This is why it's not working, not digging deep enough, and that requires introspection as well. A lot of people don't like this because it will bring up things. Um, and not always bad things, but it can bring up the strengths and weaknesses. SWOT analysis is always really good. That's done in the business aspect, which you should focus on. Everyone just wants to talk about their strengths, but it's actually their weaknesses that will hold them back. So if your weaknesses are multiple touch points and you're too busy pushing out what you do well, you're just being avoidant by not addressing the weaknesses and just pushing the strengths out. And eventually the weaknesses will overcome the strengths, and you'll be in for a repositioning, which is where a lot of people are right now because the consumers changed, it means that everyone needs to kind of look back and have a look. So, what do you do? I guess we look at it like you fix what you can see, and that tends to be the messaging and the content. It's kind of like when we talk about brand and everyone wants to fix the visual identity, and it's like, no, you got it before that comes here. Or, you know, when you're doing I'm trying to think of another reason, or the plan to a house. I know you're building house and someone wants to in do the interior decor. It's like that's great, but um, what's the house gonna look like? You need to build it first. You need to find all the, you know, can you even have sunlight come in that space? You've got to position the house in a certain way. Like that's like the strategy, it's the plan, right? Literally called a plan. You need to be able to understand the what goes on the ground first before you can start to decorate. What can't what's the canvas look like? Build the canvas. Uh and that's where I think a lot of people, and this this is notorious, everyone wants to fix the problem that they can see or address the things that are visible because the invisible is complicated, and trying to find it is nuanced and complex, and it's hard. And that's when they say do the hard work. The hard work comes from introspection and taking advice that um can trigger you sometimes, and I think that that but when you do take that advice on, it's it's really good. So most brand problems live at the layer before any of the visual stuff, and it's what we consider the pre-conscious signal. So I spoke to I've I can't tell you how many people I've spoken to about this this week. Is that when we're doing things, there's a vibe, and people, and this is why we're seeing such a such a dynamic shift. And I spoke about this yesterday on stories, or whenever you're listening to this, I was talking about performative authenticity. So there are two types of people people that are genuinely authentic, vulnerable, share real stories. So it comes across as a real story, and then there are people that will speak to the stories that they think their audiences want to hear, and it comes across as really performative. And that is so much of a giveaway. Like you can tell, people can feel it. Like that they don't even need, and this is where why AI is not working for a lot of people. People can sense that it's AI, even if you can't. People can sense that it's AI, they feel that there's a disconnect, therefore they don't feel like they're talking to a person. If someone feels like they're talking to a robot versus talking to a person, instantly they switch off. And we saw this with telemarketers, and you know, when they used to have the robotic person on the phone and people getting really frustrated, that they had to revert back to real people. There's always going to be the real people alignment. And when I was studying uh neuroscience for business leadership at Wharton, one of the things that we were mentioning at the time, which was like 2022, I think I did that. We were talking about the rise of video calling. So a Zoom came in and everyone is talking face to face through a screen. But what do you look at when you're talking on the screen in most Cases, people are looking at themselves. They're actually looking at the person across from them. Essentially, it's like you're going to an in-person meeting and looking at a mirror the whole time. So you miss these cues, you miss these visual facial expressions, you're missing the ability to read people, to mirror them, to build oxytocin through touch. And I know that sounds so bizarre, but like, you know, you walk past somebody, you tap them on the shoulder, or you like you shove them, like if you have a joke, like all of these things build in real life that can only be experienced through eye contact and things that that build that in-person connection. You know, straight away and you walk into a room full of people through via logging onto a Zoom call, there's there's a feeling, you can feel it. And it's that's subconscious signals, and that comes from such a different perspective, and people don't know how to touch that. That is human behavior, that's why I'm studying it. And it's so deeply aligned to psychological, I guess, alignment, and we're not looking at it that deep. But we're getting to a point now where we're so diversified in the way that we think, it's individualized, I guess you would say. And the way that we consume is very different. That you really need to be understanding behavior because if you don't understand it, you're just gonna be talking to everyone. And that means that you will talk to no one. So there's plenty of times that we've dealt with this internally. Um, we've had Anna from Moon School, she's amazing. Uh, really good, amazing creative thinker. And she came to us wanting a visual identity. And when we were doing her, she sells candles and does really cool crystals and things like that. But when she came to us, I said, this is feeling really woo-woo to me. Now, if you're into woo-woo stuff, that's great. But there are still elements of her brand that she had, which didn't force that either. So she made these, or makes, she made, she makes, these amazing candles. And they're just really unique and they smell amazing. And when I was talking to her about her audience, we found out that she had a large male demographic. So a lot of men were buying her candles. And it wasn't because of all the all of the, I guess, the connotations around Chris. If you're into that, that's awesome. I love that for you. Spirituality is great. Um, but they weren't buying it for that. They were buying it for self-care. You know, what do you do when you want to relax and change the environment? You light a candle, you sit down, you chill, you do it in a bath. If you want a bath, put some bubble bath in, you might put some music on. It's you're setting the environment, you're setting the tone. And when we found this, this completely shifted the direction that we took because we realized that we weren't targeting this just this target base over here in terms of, you know, the crystals and the self-care and in terms of spirituality. We're also talking about people that just really liked her candles and maybe weren't into that, but really loved the whole aspect of the self-care ritual. So we framed it on that. And what I did with her was we went through the moon phases and we created a strategy that spoke about pause and reflect and rejuvenation and all of these really cool things that actually had a candle that was like personified for different areas of self-care. We made the colors very neutral, but really dark and moody, something that you could put on your shelf regardless of where you are. So we had like olive green and sunburnt orange, and we had like charcoal and a smoky grey and these colours and a beige and like really neutral colours that that represented like the earth. And when we put them for it, the whole language changed. So I brought in a bunch of hand-drawn illustrations that were kind of sketched and a hand-drawn typography alongside, you know, a standardized font, sans serif, that would signify like journaling. So, you know, when you when you're writing and sketching, so that nothing is clean. It was sketchy, it was messy, and that's what self-care is. It's it's not perfect. And we built the strategy around that. And the visuals looked amazing, and the message was strong, and the brand is adaptable and can grow. And she was stoked with that, and it just leveled up the brand so much, and because it completely shifted the way that people saw the brand, and it really moved her into an element outside because people were going to her product in my in a really specialized market that she was at, and she had a very different audience to who she was attracting online, so there was a disconnect. So we connected those pieces, and now she's getting the response that she needs. And even now we look at it being marketing. So, how do we get her more amplified? The strategy set. So she now knows what she needs to say, who she needs to say it to, and how she needs to show up. And now we move into marketing. How do we get this message out in different ways that people will attract us while we're staying on brand? That's the difference between brand and marketing. Marketing a message when you've got the wrong layer does not allow you to get more, you can get more eyes. But if the messaging and the feeling is off and the vibe is off, people won't buy. And so now she's solidified that strategy. Now the marketing just goes out. She just changes the marketing. You can change the execution, but the strategy stays the same. And that's what a brand strategy is. So when something isn't working, a lot of the times you've got to come back to the brand strategy and say, is this who we target now? Do we need to shift and reposition? It's been cut's common knowledge that most brands go through change every five to seven years and they redo something. But now we're looking at it being so much closer because we've seen the rise of technology, which changes culture so quickly. It's, I mean, culture's always been moving, but like the language and what we say and how we do things changes so rapidly now that we need to be really fluid with the way that we do our brands. So now it's really important that we understand the brand is moving just as quickly as the way we should move our marketing. There is obviously set, set fixed areas, but it needs to be adaptable. So it's just, I would say it's like being able to identify key areas and just constantly assessing the market, which is what I've been working with a lot of my clients on at the moment, is just being able to like have these monthly reviews where we kind of go, okay, where are we at? Has anything changed? What should we be looking at in terms of behavior? And we do like a behavioral insight. How are people feeling at the time? You know, what can we change with our marketing? How can these two align? And that's kind of, you know, when brand and marketing come together is like the brand marketing aspect. But now we look at, I guess, the uncomfortable bit because there is an uncomfortable bit, and that's not about tearing everything down. I think what I want to try and do with people at the moment is you don't need to throw out the brand. It doesn't need to happen like that. We just need to plug gaps. And most of the time, it's that the plan wasn't built properly to begin with. So you just, it's like having a puzzle with three pieces missing. Just go back and fix the puzzle. And you may need to rotate some of the other pieces so that it fits, but all of a sudden, you'll see such a massive change. And I say it's like when you fix one problem, 50 other problems get fixed. Instead of trying to fix 50 problems, fix the one problem, and then that will ricochet outwards. It's like once you figure out that, it will make a world of difference. So the question is whether it's been saying what you meant, and that's the most important thing is to assess that like before you've even opened your mouth. Are you communicating what you're trying to do before you even say a word? That's the most important thing about brand, especially from visual presence anyway. So, okay, what can you do now? Because I think that a lot of people go, here's a problem, and then you're like, well, great, what do I do about it? And I'm guilty of this, I'm so sorry, because I know what to do about it. But what I would do if you can do a quick audit, there's a couple of things you can do actually. You can pull up your audit. I have a brand gap finder you can have a look at. That's a like a more in-depth analysis. So if you want to do that, it's like a bit more advanced. You can I'll put both links in the file and you can go and have a look. Um, but if it's not what you intended based on the audit that you go through, and ask people around you, not just people that know you. I know that so many people go, I've asked my friends. It's like, yeah, but your friends are gonna be biased. Friends are gonna be biased because they like you, so they're gonna see you in a positive light. They're not gonna give you the information that you need to get the negative feedback. When I ask for reviews from clients, I'm like, let us know how we went. Please be as honest as you can. It's the only way we can improve. And they've that gives them the invitation to show us what we did wrong, and that's the only way that we know how to improve it. And we have, and we work at that every day to it's not an instantaneous thing, it's an ongoing thing, but it's about listening and making action. So, what I would look at is yeah, ask someone that has never heard of you before, and what they would walk away thinking about you, I think is a really important thing, and not what you want them to think. What would what do they think? There is there is no, we don't want any of your projection in here. And then what they'd actually receive from that. So if you can't answer that, that's your gap. They need to be able to know what they can get from you and and who you are and everything about your brand. And if what you're saying isn't what they're taking away, boom, there's your problem. So that's number one. So, what I've created for you is the market shift, and basically it goes through and shows you a three-plot framework. It it breaks down three aspects that you need to be looking at, and it's where most businesses are communicating without knowing, and it's free. And I've put it in the show notes, but it just basically helps you to understand where the problem can be. Because I think a lot of the times we're trying to start answering problems where we're not starting at the right place. Did that come out right? The starting point's changed. What I want to try and do is give you the right starting point. When you have the right start point, then you can start to go down the right avenue. Otherwise, you could be starting on the complete wrong thing, work on it for six months, and realize that it was wrong, which I've done, by the way, and it feels really shit. I mean, you learn a lot of stuff, uh, which I think is really important. Um, but you're gonna learn stuff anyway. This is stuff that I'm showing you, isn't something that you will just know. It's me teaching you these things. So that's something that I think is really important. So this is about your gap. It's not about the solution. It's about it's simply about finding where to start. And it's about understanding that this comes from a place of the preconceived preconceived ideas that people have about you before you've even started. So if you're trying to fix a problem over here, like say people try and fix a visual identity all the time because it's the only thing they think they know how to fix, when a lot of the times it comes down to a positioning statement or, you know, what they're doing in the market and who are they targeting. And with a lot of shifts happening with the way people are spending and buying at the moment, most of it's happening because people are changing. And the people that you were check targeting, targeting may have shifted into a new and a new demographic, and you're now trying to target someone else completely, still talking to these other people, but talking to a different pay grade. And it's very, you've got to really understand that, which is important. That's behavior. So you can check out the market shift, it's a free download. The link is in the show notes. And also, just as a quick FYI in Sydney, uh June 9th, I will be running an in-person workshop. This will be released in coming weeks. We've only got 20 spots, and I've done that deliberately. I've been speaking to so many people, and I want to really give them information by now. If you've been listening for a while, you know what I'm like. So I don't want to do this half-assed get up in front of 50,000 people and be like, here's a really blanket statement because it's not what it is. There's so many individual nuances that come from building a brand and building something that are unique in to who you are as a person or who you are as a team, who you are as a culture. And for me, I want to make sure that these people feel heard. So over six hours, it'll go from 10 to 4. We will dive into that and break apart a whole bunch of stuff and have the ability to, you know, sesh out and riff out some really good ideas to move forward and have a bit of a takeaway. But that's just a little, you know, FYI, save the day. Haven't really done anything with that yet. I will post that soon. Just as uh keep your eyes out. Until then, I will chat to you next week. Did you like that episode? Hope so. Because if you did, why don't you head over to whatever platform you listen on and rate and review? It's much appreciated and helps others know what we're about. If you want to follow us, you can find us at you wanna knowau on Instagram or head to www.ywannawnly.com.au