Brand and Butter

Is Brand Loyalty Dead or Evolving?

• Tara Ladd • Episode 84

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In this episode I'm talking about the evolving landscape of brand loyalty. As the world changes, so do the ways consumers connect with brands. I discuss  why traditional brand loyalty is fading and how brands can adapt to align with modern consumer values. From the impact of societal shifts to the role of identity in purchasing decisions, discover what it takes to build trust and build genuine connections in today's market. Listen in to learn how to manage this new era of branding and ensure your strategy resonates with your audience.

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SPEAKER_00:

You're listening to Brandon Butter, straight talking, occasionally in your face, an OBS branding podcast for modern marketers and business owners. For those who want to understand the influence and power of branding and how pairing association, consumer behaviour, and design thinking can impact what people see, think and feel. I'm your host, Mara Ladd, that's sometimes funny, sometimes vulnerable, and often unapologetically blunt, founder and creative director of brand and design agency, your one and only. Hey, hey, welcome to this week's episode of Brand and Butter. I've got a good one today. I mean, I always think I have a good one, but I think at the moment what's happening is a lot around brand loyalty, and it can feel a little bit uncomfortable. So essentially, some would say brand loyalty is dead. Well the type that we know of anyway. And I know that that can be a little confronting to hear, but when we look at the reality of it, it's not because well, consumers are disengaging with brands or becoming disloyal. I think what it really comes down to, and I'm thinking as I'm saying this, is that the world has changed so drastically, and I keep saying this, but I don't think people are realizing the extent of that. So we know that there's been little things here and there, and obviously, you know, we talk about tools, and I think when people think about what's changed in terms of the way that we execute potentially content or communicate, it's so much deeper than that, and it actually aligns with deeper emotional resonance with customers and clients on how they actually align their identities with the way that they consume. And the issue is that brand loyalty has died as we know it because the world has changed and most brands haven't gone with it. So today's episode, and from what I'm seeing across the board, is that people aren't really understanding that. So I want to dive into why your brand strategy from 2019 isn't working anymore. And even if it's been a year since you've done one, maybe it's your audience analysis that needs to be updated. Because what's changed in consumer behavior as I that was a long pause as I was thinking there, is really what you need to do about it. I know that sounds so weird, uh, but it isn't it's not an update to your tools that you use on Instagram or the way that you export a reel or the way that you communicate on a different channel. It is much deeper than that. It is about understanding the fundamental shift in how humans connect with brands, and that is so deeply aligned with our identity of who we are as people. So let's take a look at what brand loyalty used to look like, right? We go back to pre-2020, where brand loyalty was different. And now we're talking six years ago now, going back, you know, we're almost at the end of the year, I'm gonna say six years. But when we look at the pre-2020 era, obviously we know what happened in 2020, but brand loyalty loyalty was more about reputation, what a brand stood for, the product they had, and aligning with its identity. And while we're still there to some extent, what the pre-loyalty era really was was something like, you know, I buy from this brand and I stick to it because I can. And I think what that meant was brushing aside certain things because they weren't exposed. You know, little letting little things go because you've been with this brand or you have been buying from this brand from a really long time that this can kind of slide. But after COVID, like the world locked down, right? So people were notoriously online because there wasn't anything else to do and people consumed the whole damn internet. And what happened with that is that they witnessed behaviors. They didn't just watch how brands responded to news events, but they saw how people in general responded to news events. And they saw how everyone saw things differently, even within their own households. So we saw personal relationships divide. We saw a mass disagreement in the way that things should have been done. And it really kind of comes down to mental health, changing environments, and it's such a heavy topic. It's like, anyway, what happened then is that we had people going down algorithm pipelines, and you know, we've all done it. We've seen this, you know, news that they haven't seen before, perspectives that they hadn't seen before. We saw belief systems change, we saw value alignment with people we wouldn't have expected. We watched the George Floyd murder in real time, eight minutes and social justice movements rise. We saw the Me Too movement, which happened pre-2020 era, but we saw this really exacerbate in that time. So it started to really gain momentum with the language that was used online. We saw COVID and the anti-vax rhetoric divide communities still happening. We've seen media being questioned like it's never had been, well it never's been the can't spit my word out. We've seen media questioned like it hasn't been questioned before. We've seen wars across the country, the country, across the world, in real-time responses, these things have been playing out across our feeds and it has really created a wedge in people. And so the critical part that we start to see, well, is that we start to see people who well, we saw behaviors change. I think that that's the biggest thing. It's like how I'm like trying to how am I supposed to phrase this correctly? It's we started to see who people really were when they thought no one was watching. And or in many cases, when everyone was watching. So I think that it it can kind of really expose a lot of things, and with that comes alignment. We saw I saw friendships break, marriages break, and with that comes like almost like a sense of morality in some cases, because there will be a line, there will be a line that people will have that they will say, Yeah, that's enough. I will let you get away with that and that, but that's too far. And we really, we really saw that line be crossed uh on many occasions and still is. And so I guess the most important part is that we started to see who people really were when they thought no one was watching. And as I said, it revealed something about brand loyalty because brand in itself is an identity trigger for who we are. So we will buy from certain brands because it's in alignment to who we are. So we started to see people working from homemade hours a day. Those who were normally in a workplace started to see colleagues and even their partners for who they were really were and stripped back, you know, more professional than ever. And usually you would go away for work and have a day away from your family, and you'd come back and you'd talk for five hours and you see them periodically. When suddenly you realize that you were 40 hours of extra time with your partner in a week may have, you know, your values may have shifted from when you first got together and to where you are now. Or maybe there is a conversation that came up that you never really had had before, and all of a sudden it drove a wedge. You know, and these things really drove home some some big things. And I think it's really important to take note of that. The same thing happened with brands. So these events have drawn lines in the sand about who people wanted to be around and who they didn't want to be around, who they wanted to give their money to. And that has a direct correlation in the way that we spend and we buy. And so whether you like it or not, whether you think it's appropriate or not, this is cultural alignment. And it's where we are in society right now. And things are changing so drastically. So, what's changed? So people now want to align and buy from brands that match their belief systems. And I mean, there obviously are smaller purchases that you don't think too much of, but I mean, you would be really, you know, shocked by how easy it is for us to buy a certain brand because of certain reasons. For instance, we look at something like a condiment, like ketchup or tomato sauce, whatever you want to call it, and you will find that you will gravitate towards something without even realizing. And it might be that you had it in your house when you were growing up and you had a really happy childhood, or that you worked in a certain restaurant and that was the brand that they had there. And without even realizing, you just subconsciously make these choices and these decisions because you've been exposed to these brands. And that's when it gets really kind of nuanced. People don't even realize these things are happening. And that's what the really important part about neuromarketing is is understanding these psychological triggers that even we don't know about. We don't know what we're doing here. And this has been proved time and time again. They did the blind taste testing with Coke and Pepsi. And when they were blindfolded, people were certain that it was it was going to be Coke that was the better flavor when they actually found it was the brand association of Coke that made people choose the Coke flavor. And largely people chose Pepsi in um favor of Coke until the branding was shown. Super interesting. You should go and have a look at that. It's called the Pepsi paradox. And so, yeah, like I guess whether you agree with that or not, it's simply that you have a target market that's vastly different to your own beliefs, if you do, right? You're going to find it really hard to align with them unless you start connecting on a much deeper level. And so there's always ways that you can connect with people, even if you don't share the same values. Obviously, we've done it in the past. Except there are some things that can really break barriers here. But it depends on what what the line is and what that barrier is and what you stand for. So, for example, right, if you're supporting a rhetoric that's misogynistic and a lot of women won't buy from you, it just won't. And we can't shrug it off like we used to and say it's just a joke, because it's not just a joke, it's an unconscious bias, it's a behavior, and it's where society is moving, and those that don't adapt will die out. This also ties into DEI, diversity, equity, and inclusion. I bring DEI up a lot, and it's because we're seeing this happen across the board where people fight about meritocracy, right? It's like merit do hard work. It's so much more than that. You can't choose someone based on a job role and abilities when there's bias deeply embedded in those decisions. So who even gets the interview? You're going by an assumption of a resume. Someone could be a really productive worker, but you're simply scaling or, you know, referring back to if if you look at basic behavioral economics, what that does is it factors in emotion. Emotions are driven by unconscious, subconscious bias, and we don't even realize that. So it's really important that, you know, without even realizing we judge people off the way that they look when 0.07 seconds. 0.07 seconds. You can't tell me that your mind, your logical brain has had enough time to kind of make sense of that. It doesn't, which means that we have preconceived ideas of what things mean. We make meaning, our own version of our own realities has been shaped by our own experiences. And you can't choose someone based on a job role and abilities when there's bias deeply embedded in those decisions, as I just said. So when we speak to someone unconsciously, we make that snap decision in 0.07 seconds, and it comes from what we've been brought up on our beliefs, our ideologies, narratives from TV, music, news, social circles. This is why society is at a real crux at the moment. And we're watching people line their money up with their values across literally every damn industry. And so, like for instance, right? Because I love a good stat, uh, I've got some stats here. So here are some real examples, right? From just the past 18 months, Tesla saw sales drop 45% in just Europe alone in January 2025. This was pre-a lot of things, right? When old mate Elon decided that he wanted to get political. Yes, well. And simultaneously, the overall uh EV market grew 34%. Electric vehicles, by the way, if you didn't know what EV stood for, it grew. So the market that he was in grew 34%, but he's his sales dropped 45% with Tesla. That's a direct correlation. Kite Baby, it's a baby clothing brand. So they faced massive boycotts when they denied remote work to an employee with a newborn baby in the ink you. Huge. Kellogg's sparked outrage when their dick CEO decided that's to tell everyone during inflation to eat cereal for dinner. Like, who even does that? It's anyway, and then we look at Bud Light, and so this is on the opposing side of the fence, right? They lost significant market share after their Dylan Mulvaney partnership, who is a trans activist. And that was, you know, it was interesting for me. Like, I saw nothing wrong. Obviously, you see which side of the fence I sit on, but people had a problem with it, obviously, and they lost money because of it. And so that's when you really need to know who your audience is. And then Starbucks and Maccas and Coke all reported weaker sales after geopolitical boycotts. So when you're looking at things, oh, and then obviously most recently we saw Disney. They lost$4 billion, you know, 7 million subscribers unsubscribed after the Kimmel debacle. So the data is really obvious with 41%, just in the US alone, so 41% of US adults plan to boycott a major retailer in March 2025. Research shows that boycotts can cause 10 to 15% revenue declines. With recovery that can take literally months or over a year, like it takes ages to kind of recover from that because then you've got bad PR by bad press. You then need to counteract that. And for reference, one negative association takes 13 positive ones to balance it out. The ratio is vastly different. So big corporations are testing whether they can get away with it. We're seeing this happen across the board now. And consumers are essentially dictating how those businesses run because they're putting their money where their mouth is. So they have the ability to control things, to control things when it comes down to what consumers want to spend their money on. And that comes down to loyalty. So loyalty is now earned through trust and action. Loyalty is rewarded when brands can be trusted. So brands can be trusted when they lead with action and those that say who they are. So it can take one, you know, one slight wrong turn or one wrong movement for people to see that things have been done incorrectly according to their values and they will question you. It's a two-way street now. You know, since Web 2.0 and the rise of social media, we've seen that customers can connect with brands on a level that enables them to question and call them out. So they're able to have these conversations in real time and then people converse with them about their experiences, and then it can snowball. So boycotts happen because of this at a large scale on both sides of the fence. By the way, it's not one side. And so then we look at micro- niching, which is something that I use all the time. We're looking at like moving into micro-niching spaces. So this is massive. So we're finding this with clients that it's not just consumers, but the clients we're attracting based on how we've repositioned our brand messaging. And that was intentional. So a lot of businesses are still operating like 2019, right? So they're still operating pre-COVID era. And I mean, look, that's fair because a lot's happened. A lot has happened. If you actually think 2019 feels like a distant memory. And they may have changed, I don't know, content or their visual identity because they need, they think they know that something needs to change, but they actually just don't know what. But no one's done the depth of work required for a proper brand strategy. And when I say a proper brand strategy, I'm not talking about mission, vision, values, exercises. I'm talking about deep competitor analysis, understanding who's in market and what they're doing, analyzing innovative tactics. I can never get that right when I try and flow it. Responding to the evolution of AI, its impact on trust, how people are using it, why they're using it, what that's actually doing to messages and how it's diluting trust, addressing how consumer behavior has literally fundamentally changed. AI is a trust issue. So AI has had massive implications. It's impacted the trust system because people can tell when you're using AI. So it feels inauthentic. And it's even so bad as like when someone knows a general writing structure, people just call you out and say, oh, you're using AI even if you know how to write in the first place. So it's almost like people are trying to dumb down their writing because people then accuse you of using AI when you just know how to write. It's crazy. So the issue with that is that when someone feels that your brand is inauthentic, that also erodes trust. Trust is it, it's it. That is it. That's the thing. People are not going to buy from you if they don't trust you. Trust is emotional. So if you're trying to connect with an audience and you're using AI to, I don't know, formulate your content when you didn't before, and your writing style then changes, people pick that up. So they feel like they're not worth it because they feel like the company or the business or the person that's communicating with them hasn't even had the ability to write a proper email from their heart. And so I saw a reel yesterday showing up with like this templated document. It was like someone getting a rejection email from this company about, you know, being interviewed, and it was like an AI prompt inserted into a space. It was like accidentally sent in a job rejection email, and it went viral. So people are calling this out and they're saying, This is what I just got. And it was, and it and they did cover the business, but everyone was like, let us know what who's the business and let them see. And to be fair, like most businesses have templated things, they just actually sent their prompt out at the same time. Um, mine is more of a template where you say, like, insert this, this, and this, and I personalize it. Whereas this was like an AI prompt, which I don't know, it's I find that a bit gross. So, you know, there are structures for how people do things, but it really does come down to how people are feeling. It feels seen, heard, and belong. That's that's at the core of it, right? And so I don't know. What we're gonna see, in my opinion, is a massive seesaw. It's like anything. Whenever something comes in, everyone jumps on it. They adapt to it, they want to be first to it, and then they realize it's probably not what it used to be. Then you see a drop-off of people, you see people go all in, and then you know, it's the seesaw effect, right? So a lot of brands will adapt AI and they'll use it for the wrong reasons, which is always the case, trial and error period, which is I just said, and then it'll swing back the other way, and people will get used to knowing what they can use it for and what they should use it for, and people will become human again. It will happen, which I can guarantee it. But as AI evolves, human brains also need to evolve, and they do evolve. So, neuroplasticity, younger kids are super snappy at identifying what AI is and what's not. Like they're good at it, they're trained at it. So, as we move forward, I guess what if you're a founder or you're in marketing or you're growing a business, businesses need to understand how consumer behavior has changed. Uh, a lot of that comes from understanding culture, the wider narrative at play. If you don't understand that stuff, you're going to have an issue because you'll notoriously be guessing who your audiences are and what they want. And they're changing really damn quickly. And so psychographics are what you really need to be focusing on. But also, does your service still resonate with audiences living in today's society? Are you talking to the conversations that people are asking for or conversations you think that they need to know about? Because that's a big difference. It's about listening. People need to belong, they need to feel seen and heard. And if you don't feel seen and heard in your content, or they don't feel seen and heard in your content, they simply won't engage. That's the hardest part of the puzzle is connecting those dots. Personal brand has never been more important. And so as a founder, having a presence has never been more important. People will Google you, they will find you. And if you aren't creating that narrative, someone else will. If you're a founder, you need to understand that what I guess what people want your business to do. What you want your business to do. I think that's the biggest thing. I look asked that a lot of people don't even know what they're trying to achieve or what the objective is, or they've had a past idea and then it's shifted, and then they're really stuck promoting an old idea when they've they've changed themselves. It's really important what they actually want their businesses to do. That is the biggest point. And then you look at what the industry's doing and where it's going. If there is a number one topic that's happening in your space, you need to talk about it. Even if you aren't experienced in it, you need to find a way to speak to it. Otherwise, swept under the rug. I can guarantee you. Like go and look, say, top five subjects that are in my brand, in my brand, in my industry, and that's what you need to be speaking to. And you can't fight against it. You have you have to participate in it. You have to address what's happening in your space. For instance, I can't ignore the AI evolution in design. I need to address it. I need to speak about it. I need to talk about it. And if you ignore these things, people will think you don't know what you're talking about and that you actu you actively ignore it. And so another thing is that I tell people that I use AI, but I don't use AI for my thinking. I use AI for my formulation and system design. And so by that I mean if I come up with an idea, I'm very sporadic. So I would use this podcast episode and then reformulate it in a way that would make sense. So it has a beginning, middle, and an end. And create ways that I don't go off on a tangent and I have a way to restructure. I think that that's that's how I use it because I know what I need to talk to, but sometimes I get conversation happy and I end up, you know, taking the scenic route down somewhere else and not even getting to the final point, which can be confusing for a lot of people if they're listening. Sorry if that's happened in the past. But this is essentially what happened with Blockbuster, right? So Netflix pitched their idea to Blockbuster and they declined them. So Blockbuster assumed that they'd always dominate. It was stagnation, the inability to innovate because of an ego. So did Kodak. They did that too. They invented the digital camera, and the digital camera took out took them out because they thought film was always going to be there. It really is that just it that's optimism bias, by the way. It's that nothing of bad will ever happen to me. But this happened slowly, then all at once. Then trust starts to erode in these tiny spaces, right? So little things that people used to defend for you, they'll stop defending. Eventually, loyalty drops when trust has eroded so badly that you now become disposable. You know, you become a commodity where there's actually nothing else there left for your brand that they used to defend you for that you are now just seen as price. And they go, Yep, not worth it. See you later. Because all of those other variables have been slowly crossed off the list. And it's happening to so many brands. I'm saying this happened to so many people. And that's the danger zone. And by that stage, it's usually too late because people are already looking elsewhere. Like I said, remember, 13 positive associations to counteract one negative experience. So if we're looking at it from a wider point, like at the center of anything brand related is belonging. And so people need to feel part of the brand. It's identity alignment. And when we're talking about brand loyalty, people want to buy and feel like the purchase is an extension of who they are. So this shows up everywhere, right? So look, let's look at toilet paper. You've got Who Gives a Crap and Sorbent. So who gives a crap is like the altruistic social movement versus toilet paper, which is just a product, right? They whack the cute little Labrador puppy on the front and people might go, oh puppy, and that might be the reason that they buy it, right? But then you look at water bottles, you know, Stanley took off because they have like a stainless steel, but there's also a sustainability to that. It's also the cool factor to it. But, you know, there is that element of not buying plastic bottles. When an environmental company does something wrong, people completely eliminate buying from them. Like it's like they will suck money out of them so quickly. When people feel ripped off, they just don't invest in you anymore. They divest, is that what they call? Disinvest, whatever that is, but they do the opposite of investing. And they remove themselves entirely. So they don't just stop buying from you, they become, well, they become advocates for opposing you and you know, in the group chats, and and that's not great. That's a super dangerous place to be. All you need to do is jump on a Reddit thread and read something about someone and it goes on, right? It's like a pylon. And that's another thing, right? Um, you get one negative experience and the negative experiences will counteract. This is why reviews matter online. Financial changes matter, right? So everyone's taken a financial hit. Whether someone has had a lot of money or not, everyone has taken a step down, unless they're in some kind of profiteering industry, which is, you know, few. So if you still want to target that same price range of who you were targeting before for a wider demographic, you kind of need to understand that a whole group of people spend differently, right? So everyone, I like to consider it like taking a step down. And so if you need to now move to a different group of people, you now need to understand who that audience is. The people that used to spend at your price range have now taken a step down. But if you still want that price range, you now need to know who that new audience is. And this is the problem. They're speaking to the people that are on the step below, but they don't have the money anymore. And so they either need to speak to the people on the step below by, you know, dropping what they do, or they go back up to the next level and they figure out where those people are at. This is why I keep saying that people need to understand consumer behavior, they need to understand psychographics, and they need to understand the general consensus of what's happening in the world. Their mental capacity around time and money is different. Those who spend money to save time are very different from those who spend time to save money. That's crucial when you're targeting people. Life stages matter too. Parenthood, empty nesters, retirement. These things are really important because you have to align where you sit in the current environment with how people are feeling. So if someone feels threatened or offended by brand, they won't buy from you. It's it's that simple. And it's about connection. Everything is about relationship building and trust. So what do you do, right? So if we're looking at how do you move forward, it's really what's the one-shift founders or those in that, you know, brand scaling space, marketers, anyone in that space. What is it that you need to do? Unfortunately, you need to push your ego to the side and ask questions. A lot of times people think that they know what to do. They refuse to ask help. So I've had people that are in brand strategy ask me about brand strategy, and I think that that's great. I have also done the same thing because you are so blinded by your own stuff that you completely miss these gaps. Uh, I had uh my a really good content creator who was working on content strategy with me completely helped me redo my whole brand strategy, and it was the best thing that I ever did. And it's you need people that are just as good as you are to come into the space and rework your thinking. Because otherwise you do, you get stuck in a hole and you're like, I don't know how to get out because you're taking the same pathway every single time to get to the same damn destination. You're not gonna reach a new destination with the same map. It doesn't work like that. So you don't just ask people directly either because they're not not everyone really knows why they buy. It's about reading, analyzing, researching, testing. And when something doesn't work, you've got to pull the plug. And I mean, okay, that's two parts. You've got to stick with things long enough to know. But if you've been pushing at something and pushing at something and you think that it has legs, that's when I would speak to someone else. If you've then spoken to someone else and you've tried different ways, then pull the plug. Because there's no point investing all your time and energy into something that isn't going to work. But there's the the counteraction to that is you need to make sure you're doing everything in your possible, I guess, wheelhouse to get that thing to do something, right? So I'm also of the thought that, you know, things take time. And if you do believe in it to stick with it. But if you are funneling a whole bunch of energy into something and you're not doing anything new to see at work, then maybe that's your first step there, right? It's about identifying your own faults, taking criticism, and then moving forward. It's a sunk horse fallacy, by the way. You can go and Google that one. But you just need to watch what's happening in your industry. You can't bury your head in the sand and think that changes aren't coming. Don't assume something's going to go back to the way it is or it was because it's not. You need to create spaces, people feel comfortable giving feedback. If you don't action feedback, people just give up. That will be your very own undoing.

unknown:

So

SPEAKER_00:

So I've actually created something because I found this to be really common in a lot of brands. It's it's called the brand gap finder. This took me so long to create because I wanted to create something that was genuine, right? And something that you could analyze without bias because you can answer something and people would be like, you know, I am a 10 out of 10 at that. And you're like, are you though? So it's not a scorecard. It does have elements of a scorecard to it, but how you see your brand on a scale of one to 10, yes. So we all have optimism bias. We all think we're better than what we are. But the brand gap finder is basically an assessment that gets you to look around and assess from a realistic point of view. So I know people who think their brands are killing it, like I just said, and their communities will be there till the end. But behind the scenes, there's group chats happening, conversations happening that they don't know about. And if you ask them how they're going, they'll say, it's great. I've had this happen to a few people actually. Um, and you go and find a Reddit thread and you, you know, you hear all about it and you're like, oh, and then you're kind of in a place where you're like, do you tell them or not? But anyway, you've got to create that space where people feel comfortable coming to tell you when something's wrong. And if you don't, they won't tell you. And if you continue to suffer, well, you will continue to suffer because that it'll be like this round and round. When it comes to these, these are hard changes, they're confronting, and they they like to I've I was sitting in a really uncomfortable space. I'm telling you, for like two years, and it was reworking, testing, pushing, and like I had no idea what I was doing. But let me tell you, after those two years, I then created now we're up to like 85 podcast episodes. I've done two years worth of emails. And from that information, not only that, I'm putting all this stuff out and it's building trust. It took me, you know, and originally it was like an eight-month can eight, eight, nine-month conversion from initial email to, you know, sell and how many touch points, you know, a someone has. They might have seven touch points, whatever that is, to witness your brand and to remember your brand and be able to trust you. But we've weeded ours right down now, which is good. So the better you get, the smaller that gap will be. Also depends on the purchase size, right? So it's what risk, how risky is the purchase from you, and what are you putting out there to, I guess, what is the word called? Objectify? What a problem, problem objections or whatever it's called. But what's the risk assessment that's involved? So brands that wins that are winning aren't the ones that that won't do the work. They're the ones that are actually getting right in there and they're figuring out what to do and they're asking questions and they're changing and adapting, and they're doing it at such a small pace that that they're getting this this info. So from those two years of emails or you know, the 85 podcast episodes, I'm now able to go, this was a highly downloaded email, um, on click-through rate, or this was uh the best downloaded or most, you know, listened to podcast episode. And you start to collate the data, and that's when you really start to know, ah, okay, this is what people are really wanting. And it does surprise you that it really does surprise you. But if you're not putting it out there, they're also not gonna know. So it really just does come down to that and figuring out what it is that you actually are trying to communicate, but also listening to what people are saying. So when you understand your audience and align with culture, you will build trust through action and then create belonging. So if you do want to assess where your brand sits right now, I'm gonna drop the link to our brand gap finder in the show notes, and you can, it's free. You just can go and download it, and it'll send you an analysis of next steps and things like that. But it'll come at it from a realistic strategic lens. Anyway, I hope that's kind of broken it down because I think that it like when I try and talk about this topic, I can get really deep because it means something. There's a whole bunch about societal change that's happening, and I love that topic so much. Um, but anyway, if you are interested in having chat, as always, you can find me on Instagram and slip into my DMs. Otherwise, um, I hope you like this episode. And if you play if you have any questions, like ask me those so that I can bring them to the table. Because every question is someone else is thinking about it. I can guarantee it. Um for now. I hope you enjoyed that episode, and I'll talk to you next week. Did you like that episode? I hope so. Because if you did, why don't you head over to whatever platform you listen on and rate and review? It's much appreciated and helps others know what we're about. If you want to follow us, you can find us at your one and only underscore AU on Instagram or head to www.youwan and only.com.au

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Tara Ladd

Host