Brand and Butter
The straight-talking branding podcast for leaders who refuse to settle.
Brand and Butter delivers no-BS advice on how psychology, strategy, and design create brands that work. Host Tara Ladd, founder of Your One & Only brand design studio, breaks down the real influence and power of branding – how understanding behaviour and cultural shifts can transform how people see, think, and choose.
Sometimes funny, always honest, never dull. This is the podcast that cuts through industry jargon to talk about what actually makes brands stick.
Tara Ladd is the founder of Your One and Only, who design brands that breathe with culture through psychology, strategy, and design.
Brand and Butter
Navigating the New Age of Content Creation with Kim James
In this episode, Kim James, co-founder of Wedge, discusses the evolution of her startup and the importance of content marketing in today's digital landscape. We chat about the crossover of AI and creativity, the importance of understanding audience personas, and the challenges of start ups and building in public. Kim goes into the need for authenticity in personal branding and the power of networking with like-minded people in order to grow. We also touch on finding balance in work and life, avoiding burnout, and the future of content creation.
Follow Kim:
Website: https://www.buildwedge.com
TikTok: @kimelizabethjames
Instagram: @kimelizabethjames
Instagram: @buildwedge
Visit https://youroneandonly.com.au/
Follow YO&O on IG https://www.instagram.com/youroneandonly_au/
Follow Tara on IG https://www.instagram.com/iamtaraladd/
Connect with Tara on https://www.linkedin.com/in/tarajoyladd/
Sign up for the Design Mind Theory Email – See how other Brands use psychology to nail their strategies.
You're listening to Brandon Butter. Straight talking, occasionally in your face, an OBS, branding podcast for modern marketers and business owners. For those who want to understand the influence and power of branding and how pairing associations, consumer behaviour, and design thinking can impact what people see, think and feel. I'm your host, Carl Ladd, sometimes funny, sometimes vulnerable, and often unapologetically blunt, founder and creative director of brand and design agency, your one and only hi everyone. Welcome to this week's episode of Brand and Butter. Now I have a really cool guest on today. Now, give us we're probably going to take about 50 scenic routes because we are the most ADHD extroverted people you could probably ever meet. But I'm going to swing over the mic to Kim James, who is GoFor.
SPEAKER_02:Thank you for having me. Yeah, no, I'm happy to be here on a Friday. Rock and roll. Let's go, let's go.
unknown:Yeah.
SPEAKER_00:And I deliberately did that because Kim's gone through a uh a business change lately. And I'm like, oh, it's an hour's the perfect time for her to introduce her new thing, which is very cool by the way. We just had like a 15-minute call before we hit record. So let's go, Kim. Tell us all about Wedge and what you're doing, and let's get into this because this is going to be all about content marketing. I think a lot of people need to know about this at the moment. And obviously, that hardline connects with brand. And yeah, I know that Kim is going to be the person that will give you all of those nuggets to use. So Kim, tell us all about Wedge and what you're up to at the moment.
SPEAKER_02:Absolutely. Yeah, so uh it is month five of Building Wedge. Um, background of me. So I was I've been in content marketing for years. Um, everything from when I basically started with Reese Plumbing when I was 23, we had no social media, and I was like, I'll do it. Stepped into that um before then uh working with Hootsuite as um the strategist for Australia there and then in the government with open source intelligence, which is just such just a real lore of me because I am the most silly goofy person and the thought of me um working in that space, as you know. So serious. So serious. I was like, wow. Um, but yeah, since then, so we have uh credit wedge. Basically, I left corporate to start working for myself. No idea what that was going to be, just uh figured I'd figure it out. Um, and I met Ryan literally a year ago today, which uh this week, sorry, which was absolutely manic. But we actually realized as we started working together, we um were starting to build a bit of the same thing. So we realized let's join forces. Um we met through LinkedIn, he lives in New Zealand, I'm in Melbourne. Um, it wasn't until um or what, I think May, June this year that we actually met in person and knew how tall each other was. Um, so he came over to Melbourne and we were kind of like, do we do this thing? Within two hours of meeting, we're on a call with the lawyer being like, so what if it doesn't work? You know, it was it was a very intense start, which obviously um there's only one way to kind of solve that is a very good um, you know, time spent with the beer tap of the um the co-working space, you know. So we had a few beers with that, and we're like, yep, okay, we're on to a thing. So we yeah, actually moved both of our businesses um in June and we launched Wedge. So the like all good startups, where we are now is not where we were five months ago, and where we are in five months' time is probably not going to be where we are today. But we set off actually thinking we were going to solve brand and marketing strategy and making it accessible because we were at a point where everyone had beautiful big 40-page brand docs, but you never used it. You had that, and then what are you actually going to be able to still get out and post? So we were fixing strategies, we were loving it, we were like, this is unreal. But obviously, if my background and content rhymes in agency, every client was still like, yeah, but what do I post on social? How do I do it on social? How do I go viral on social? I want to be good on social. And we were like, okay, cool. Yep, the strategy is only as good as its execution. So we started then moving through it, moving through it, and we were back and forth. And I went to a dinner with Blackbird and um an event Michelle Batterby hosted at Gracie's wine room. And I sat next to the CEO of Linktree and he just said to me, What does Wedge do? And I shit you not, without even like trying. I just went, We take the anxiety out of knowing what to post on social media. Just USP, like, there you go. And I was like, Where did that come from? Like, where did that come from? Right in there. It was just in there waiting. And we were like, that's the thing. So basically, we've then kind of iterated and built it over um a while as well. We've written about 25 client strategies as well and implemented them into social. Um, where we're at now is that uh yeah, we take the anxiety out of knowing what to post on social media by centralizing ideas, trends, uh ideas and trends, briefs, and planning and strategy all into one centralized platform. Um, so basically, like how when you see a really cool looking um recipe on TikTok, and you're like, oh my God, I really want to make that, but you don't know the recipe and you don't know the method and you don't know the ingredients. I'd been teaching um on what goes into really good content and why good content matters. And as we all hear, people say, oh, it's the hook and it's the this and it's that, and then you just get overwhelmed and you save all these Instagram posts. I'm telling you how to do it, and you never do it. Then you post, you get 300 views, and then you're like, oh, it was definitely the blah, blah, blah. So we actually built that into AI. We thought, well, how about if that can actually analyze? So where we're at now is you'll be able to find, save, and enjoy your favorite content when you're scrolling, send it over to the platform, it will analyze it for you. And then from there, we will look at a pipeline of being able to then bring in your strategy where you can then actually go, okay, well, here's what I liked. Here's uh how I can really make this to me. Um, and yeah, all of the workflows off the back of that because we really realize that there's a lot of people right now that are marketers and um great brand people that aren't content creators, but you're expected to post like one. And um, me as a content creator forced me to make better content. So that's basically my monologue of me. I love that.
SPEAKER_00:And I think this is such an important thing at the moment because I it's kind of like when someone remember in the the when social media first came out, everyone was just like, we're going to hand it off to our admin, and then we realized that it was a lot more than just handing over to the admin, and now we're seeing like so many subsets of of you know marketing that are evolving that you have all of these like specialist areas. So to be able to say, like, to say I'm a marketer is just not even enough now. Like you have to be, I'm in this this specific area of marketing, and you this, and I think that that's kind of the thing with brand as well. Like, we obviously we don't do the content aspect of it. We can go now take everything that we've just told you and build it into a content marketing plan, which obviously helps, but the content and uh when I was so full pro so let's go back. Kim and I met at the comeback conference for the digital picnic in March, and they sat us next to each other, which was I don't know whether that was a mistake or a blessing, but we thought yapping the whole time through that whole. But I mean it was good. We were just like fully throwing down our ideas, and it was great, you know. Uh, and that's why obviously Kim is here today after many of times I've tried to get her on and I've had to cancel, she had to cancel whatever, but we've yeah. Yeah. Uh but she's like nailed that I remember watching her presentation and going, This is this is 100% what people need right now because they know what they need to say, they know how they need to show up. Um, I believe that a lot of people don't know who their audiences are at the moment. I think this is probably the biggest issue, and I think that they're diving into individualization. We're looking at subcommunities really on the rise now, the way that people are using platforms, and like how can you be expected to know that level of depth when you're a business owner trying to sell a product? Like, this is like a full-time, I'm talking like a lot of hours in the week. So, you know, you hire someone to do that stuff for you, or you you speak to and sorry guys, but Chat GPT is not built for that yet. You have to be able to know how to prompt it, which is why I think it's a great idea that you guys have built wedge because you've come at it from experience, right? So you're building in the you know the prerequisites of what people need to be asking for content.
SPEAKER_02:Um, we're keeping the creativity in. Like, if anything, I strongly believe that AI should not try to be creative. AI is math and science to get the best equation. AI would be like asking your science teacher what something should be. Like he probably has an idea, he might have an absolute banger of a one-liner that comes out of somewhere, but like not that creative, you know what I mean? And that's where with this, we don't try to make AI be the creative. And we basically actually that conference was when I built out that structure for it. I was like, okay, hang on, how do I sell how do I tell storytelling structures of the funnel to 400 people that's really clear with a big screen at once? And that structure is genuinely what we have now built in. And we've actually built it into a funnel. And I write a sub stack each week to like the different types of content at each stage and how you can do it. Because I think we're at a point now where there's a lot of really great tools that have come out like us for ads, because ads need a not need a lot of content. Um, they need a lot of creative, and it's a structure, it's a formula of what an ad is, but no one's done that for organic because I think one, organic has kind of felt like it's the silly, goofy little thing. But if you ask the right brands, they will say to you it was organic. Like, have a look at Booth's um hair care. They literally, you know, hit their absolute KPIs. There was no ads. That was a hundred percent organic. So we realized that it was an ad. And then the second part it was because it's all about storytelling and it's about how you can use tech to actually help you be more creative. Because especially if you are a we say there's like two types of camps for content right now. People that want to make good content, they see others do it well, and they're like, I want to do that. And that is one camp, a hundred percent. The other camp is the people that you are demanded to make good content. You are paid a salary every year, and your KPI is content. We want to we work with those people because we I I have been that. Um, those people are demanded to do that every day. Um, and that's the ones that we actually want them to be more creative by actually helping with the planning piece. Because if you take the planning piece out, you get more time to actually creativity. Yeah, like let's be fun. And I feel like we've kind of lost that with the AI chat GPT garbage that, like, hello, social media is supposed to be fun and social. And like brands can be. It was funny, someone actually said to me, How do you be like fun and funny on social? And I was like, I hate to say it, but as a brand, if you want to be fun and funny on social, one, you need to hire someone that's chronically online and understands fun online pop culture trends. Like, if you want someone to know that, you have to hire the person that gets it. If you ask me why I am, it's probably because I was a chubby redhead in as a in high school.
SPEAKER_00:You are funny. Like, I think this is the brand personality I keep trying to say to people. It's the food that you try, and I actually had to break someone's heart the other week where they were like, you know, we're trying to attract a high-end market, but we're not really high-end ourselves. You know, we've got a lot of people that come in, they're our people, but you know, we're trying to speak to have you ever thought that the people that are in there that uh your community that's still buying from you is maybe who the people are that you should be targeting, like instead of oh and she's hard. And I'm she's like, but we're all messy and dirty. I'm like, exactly the juxtaposition you need in a winery. Um, do you know what I mean? Like that's just not what people see. It could be the perfect thing that gives you a bit of a differentiation. And I think that that's that's the thing, is I also feeling that the content is natural to the I mean, obviously, brands have multiple people in it, not just talking founder lead, but there are you know, organizational led where you have a culture, but it's like that needs to kind of come through the lens of ever of every aspect from content through to every brand touch point. Because if you're all funny online, but then you're not funny with the way that you answer the phone or the way that you do emails, like there's a disconnect, right?
SPEAKER_02:Yeah, yeah, especially like if you you could hire the person that is the funniest, that is so great, that came from the best brand. But the one thing that will kill that is if you don't have internal stakeholder alignment of this is what we sound like. And that's I say to people, yeah, like step one, hire someone that gets it. Step two, have a really good, we all agree, this is what it is, this is all how we're gonna sound. No one become a bottleneck. Step three is trust the person that you hired, trust that person that they say we should do this thing, because that is the person that understands online culture. And it can be a very big difference between if you know you might have such an understanding of your brand and you're so customer obsessed, but you do also need that person that understands the internet culture. And that is that is that is a thing of its own. And it is something that um we actually spoke with this week with the mentor, and um, she said, like, how do you know about things? I was like, to be honest, you have to be chronically online. She's like, I wonder if your platform will help people do less of that. I was like, I hope so. But to be honest, like, like that's how I know how to do things. There's actually three types of trends I say to people. There's three types of trends for any brand to do it. One, chronically online created trends, those trends that are like made on TikTok that you can't explain to anyone, and you won't get it unless you're like the income ticket. Yeah, you have to be on it to know that that's it. Like recently, the um unfortunately I do love trend with that one song, online trend. You could probably get about two to three weeks because those trends actually start from like small microcreators. They won't usually be created by like a brand, they'll start from somewhere small and varied, yeah, and go up. The second one is uh pop culture. That is tell us we've got engaged, that is something happening in the world. You get 24 hours. Like, do not take longer than one day. If you take longer than one day, you're out. Uh, you are late to the party. And then the third one is actually uh trending content that you create yourself, memes that you make yourself, series that you make yourself, content that you make, but that is the hardest one for brands to make because you have to have the strongest 360-degree degree view of your customer. Um, that's what we did at Reese. We we had some really fun ones that we did of that, but the only reason we did that is because realistically, um, I spent my first two and a half years at Reese in a plumbing store. So I would not know plumbers more if I tried.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, yeah, yeah. It is really like that. Uh though I saw someone post the other week and I was in such disagreements with it. And it was like, you don't have to be likable. I'm like, that is actually the biggest load of shit I've ever read. I think your brand has to be likable. Like no one's like a whole bias. And I think that and I I've everything that you're saying now is in alignment to what I've been posting at the moment um because I'm very much about memory and retention. I think people are trying to get attention, but it's not about attention, it's about retention. And uh we're looking at how do I stand out, how do I, how do I, you know, get people to to look at me? And it's like it's not about being the loudest. Virality isn't always what you want, you know. Sometimes you will be you'll go viral, and you know, unless you can do something quite clever. There was who was the girl that created was it the skincare brand? Um TBH, the biofilm house. Is that what it was when she got slammed online for something and then she spun it into a positive? I thought that was really clever. Um, but like that few and far between could do something like that, right? So I I think when you go viral, you have to be expected to kind of get both ends of this of the fence, right?
SPEAKER_02:Like, but when well, there's no point going viral when it doesn't align to your brand or what you sell. Like, genuinely, there is no need because all you will do is either attract people that will never buy from you, attract the absolute scum of the earth. Like, and I and trust me, I've seen them. I've seen them. I I posted Taylor Swift, I've posted plumbing, and I've worked with the government. If anyone has seen the scum of the earth, I know um what that looks like. Very desensitized, unfortunately. Now I feel like things can't scare me anymore. That's true. Um trolls on my oh, another day. Um and then, yeah, so then to be able to like get to a point where social is something that, as you say, with retention and you want to be known for, because otherwise you will get a one-hit wonder. And that's where when it comes to content, why in our platform, it's actually built in teaching people content funnels because top of funnel is like you're going to a movie. You're gonna go see a movie and you watch the movie trailer. Like everyone's seen the trailer for Wethering Heights, they've seen Jacob Alordie and Margaret Robbie and been like, I've never been prouder to be an Australian. Like the two hottest people in Hollywood right now, Australians, iconic. So you watch that and you're like, I want to go into that movie, but that's not the whole movie, right? So you're like, yep, that is your top of funnel. Like that is just discovery, like going for that. The middle of funnel is the movie. It is like that is the absolute trailer. I built trust, authority. I love everything about it. And then the bottom of funnel is when you are doing transformation or you're selling and you're showing others through it, kind of thing. So, why our platform is built into that? Because otherwise, I think a lot of people right now are saying things like, oh, the marketing funnel's dead. Yeah, we are done of the world. The digital marketing bubble is burst. Someone asked me that at an event last week. They said, Do you think the bubble burst? I was like, baby, burst years ago. You'd be able to post one photo on Facebook be like, hey, got this bikini, do you want to buy it? And it's like 10,000 likes, 40,000 comments, and like direct sales. Now it's like, hey, do you want to buy this thing? I need to see it seven times. Um, and then it's like, I want you to have shown me this type of content on TikTok. Oh, well, I'm actually not on TikTok, so I want you to talk to me on Facebook. Well, I'm not on Facebook, I want you to talk about Instagram. I'm on Instagram, I want you to talk to me on Reddit. I'm not there. I want a long form um deep dive on YouTube. I'm not in any of those, and I want to understand about your business and then work there on LinkedIn. Like the bubble bubbles burst.
SPEAKER_00:Oh, it's it's so diversified, isn't it? I'm like, I'm so tired. But it's interesting because I like and then I guess the way that we do ours is that we're a little bit different on each platform so they're not getting regurgitation. Absolutely. Email's very different, it's like case studies, psychological case studies, and then on LinkedIn, it's a bit of a merge between, you know, me and my person and the business. It's like a bit of mixed in. Like your one and only is like now moving into like like behind the scenes, it's the process, it's our frameworks, it's the way we do things peppered with humor. But then all of these different ways of doing things are how people get to experience you, and it's not until they realize what is it?
SPEAKER_02:Yeah, you said seven, it was seven pieces of content. It's about seven plus touch points before someone makes a purchase. It can be upwards from there, but it's a minimum of seven. So that's why when people say the marketing funnel's dead, not the marketing funnel of like, you know, a sales funnel kind of thing. They just mean that like people don't flow down it. Like you don't see and go, Facebook post, I bought, get email, and end of story. It the marketing funnel is dead because attribution is hard to do to do things to and stuff like that now. You know, like if you think about it, and I when I do the prezo, I say to people, you're going on a holiday today and I want you to think of a suitcase. Tell me right now who you're going to um go and research. I was like, you haven't picked up your phone, just tell me the names right now. And they always tell me one of three names, July, Ramoa, or Samsonite. Like that is the three that I get every single time. And a lot of that is because they're showing up in the right places at the right times. I also think that right now, when I get it, marketing can feel like a bin fire because you can't just do one Facebook post and it goes great. There has never been more opportunity for the underdog. Because we are in a time right now where the absolute leaders of industries are having their lunch eaten and stolen and not getting back by underdogs because attention is a new currency and attention is got through really good storytelling, not through budget, not through more money. And platforms, you're trading in your time with posting more. But also, it just means that if you understand storytelling and you can be on all the right placements and have the right content with a better quality customer journey and a better quality experience, you will a hundred percent have such a stronger opportunity because we've seen it. Like we've worked with clients where they're like, we are the we are the industry leader, we're having these smaller ones take us. And I'm like, yeah, because better content, right placement, rock and roll.
SPEAKER_00:Perfect. Last week I spoke about identity, like how uh we're moving into like the identity economy. So even moving past attention into identity, right? So someone will get your I'm saying like uh, and we saw this happen with Disney, right? We saw and Ben and Jerry's. We're seeing people buying from brands because they're more and more aligning to their values and their beliefs. We've seen this with geopolitics and political stuff when someone says something that they did, they just unfollow, disconnect, do not want to bust that brand anymore. Unfortunately, this is the world that we now live in. Uh, when we have access to multiple sources, that's just how people choose. And so I believe that now more than ever, it's more important to understand the aspect of belonging and I guess feel making the customer that you know feel like they are part of whatever it is that you're speaking to, which brings me exactly to what you were talking about. So if you're targeting, I guess, specific audiences, like it needs to be you need to know the audience inside and out to know where they are, uh what they're consuming, what their friends are consuming, because I'm not really like, and especially if you're going by word of mouth, if someone that they trust just sends them a link and says, this is who I use, they're more than likely going to work with you because you trust the person that it doesn't matter how much marketing you do, they bypass all of that stuff, and that comes from trust. And I think um one of the biggest things that I realized was that in order to finesse my strategy, I think we even had this conversation privately, was that in order for us to finesse our strategy, we just kept kind of amending it, and it was like, just bloody execute it. Like, and it's like you have to be executing everyone's trying to that you don't know what they want. It always blows my mind, the things that I think that they want and the things that they do. And it's always the shit that takes me the less like the least amount of terms to produce, right?
SPEAKER_02:Yeah, oh, absolutely. And I think there's two things with that. One, what you'd said in terms of like um listening to people of the word of mouth like you is absolutely key, but word of mouth has completely changed that. We have never been in a world where we have segregated um for you pages, we get segregated algorithms, we have segregated products, like it is, oh, this is for you, this isn't for you, I listen to this podcast, I don't kind of thing. That's also gotten us to a point. I had this conversation this week that obviously Taylor Swift Life of a Showgirl had come out, and I read some of the critics' articles, and I was like, why would I care what that metal-aged man thinks about of Taylor Swift? Genuinely, I was like, why would I care about your review of that article? Because it's not for you. So I started thinking, well, then what is the value of a critic? And the reason I thought of that is because one of the number one questions we get asked when we're working with brands right now is about influencer strategy because they are absolutely amazing, but only if you get it right. And I say to every client, you will understand your social media, your influencer strategy when we have audience personas, because your audience personas, we break down so in depth of like who those people are, that then an influencer, if you can go that influencer is our audience, then you know that you're going to be like, that is something that we go with. And in that, with our audience personas, we do the ladder of transformation as well. I don't know if you've done the ladder of transformation. Oh, yeah. So the ladder of transformation is a brand strategy thing. It's I didn't come up with it, it's been around for years. But basically, any single product that you buy goes through you have a ladder of transformation. There's functional, it's the features and benefits of what you get. There is the middle, which is the emotional. So emotionally, what it feels like, and identity. And that identity is who you become. And it's exactly what you said with belonging. And I explained this last week we had an event um because we're in a program, a mentorship program for VC, like a with a VC firm. And in that, someone asked me, Well, how would you show the difference between that? And I said, I'll pull up your phone, I'll show you three things. And I show, um, have a look at Stax. So, Stacks, they had on their Instagram the home of the best black legging. That's a fun, that's a features and benefits, right? That's a functional. But if someone says that's not the best leggy, then your uh element of what you stand on starts to get disbelief.
SPEAKER_01:Yes.
SPEAKER_02:Then I looked at Crop Shop Boutique, and theirs is all about products that make you feel confident. What if you don't feel confident wearing that? What if you don't look like the models on their sites? What if you, your level of what confidence is to you is not what it is to someone else, middle funnel. And I said to them, who is the one right now that you reckon is probably starting to make the most amount of moves and people are talking about the most? And they all said LSKD. And I said, have a look at their Instagram. Yeah. And what is their Instagram buyer said? 1% better every day because that is an identity someone can belong to, feel a part of, and become an aspirational better version of themselves.
SPEAKER_00:Do you know what's really interesting about LSKD? I've spoken about them so many times. What I really I think they've also taken like the old Nike strategy. So what's really good about LSKD is they've got this mother brand, right? So it in a gen you buy from LSKD, you become part of LSKD. But within that, they have sub-communities. So they then have the yoga um aspect of it. They have the runners, they have the CrossFit and the Lifters, and they have so many different areas that you know they've covered off multiple areas of, you know, and then they feature really good athletes, you know, and their diversity and inclusion aspect of who they put in their uh marketing is amazing. And everyone, like everyone sees themselves in an ad. And I think that that's what's really powerful. So what you may not lift, but you may run, or you may not run, but you you know, and so they're just basically saying, This is our house, come into your personalized room. And I'm like, this is what Nike used to do really well. They kind of fell off the bent, like you know, went off there for a little bit.
SPEAKER_02:Um they that yeah, they're another one because they didn't go with the brand play, they went for the 5%. They focused too much on the performance marketing side and they've lost their brand play. But yes, I agree with you. And I think the thing with LSKD that they do that really well is because the number one trap people get stuck in as well when it comes to audience personas, um, is the difference between primary and secondary. You should have these are the primary audience personas of who we sell to now, but these are the emerging markets that we look at. So we have a look of that. And we've actually had a few clients recently that have quite an older generation audience. But I say to them, you can't only go for those people because when I look at all of your competitors, they're going for the 40s, they're going for the people that are emerging, they're going for these other audiences you haven't looked at. I said, Who do you think is going to be buying your product in five years' time? Because if those people are not as mobile and not utilizing, it's not going to be them. So I think that businesses can get themselves stuck into a trap of that as well, of like where those things sit, um, of who that is and what that emerging market is. Because um, it's also a very interesting one. And it's like something that I love to go on tangents about, but it's even things about clothing brands and stuff right now. Like we sizing for women is so wild because we have so many stores that people are wearing things from Kmart, whether or not you're 18 or 45. And you're like, what is a size 10 to an 18 compared? Like, I know that like I'm a different size as to what I was back then, but I wear the same clothing size, you know what I mean? So yeah.
SPEAKER_00:We saw this with Witchery, didn't we? That they had a roll out because of that exact thing. That was really interesting. And this was a thing where they shifted to a younger audience, but they pissed off their prime audience in doing so. And I mean this with Jaguar as well, which I didn't think had enough legs to kind of push out. I was interested to see how that was going to evolve, but we saw that I saw that.
SPEAKER_02:I saw some good data on that that they that apparently it said that like it didn't impact the people who would be buying Jag, which was interesting. Like all every marketer had an opinion. Don't know if it was the right one.
SPEAKER_00:I I still am of the belief that they didn't give that enough time. We know with brand, it takes a long time. With a legacy brand and eliminating a legacy brand and what they thought like, I mean, they went very out there, didn't they? So, like, you know, it was, but it they got people talking about Jag again.
SPEAKER_02:So whether you see that as a good or a bad thing, but all it's the same as what Taylor Swift said this week, where she said they asked her, Do you worry about the negativity of the first week of your album? She goes, anyone that's talking about my album the first week, that's a sign, that's a positive sign. Because I think the problem with social media is everyone has a platform to um think out loud. Like maybe I wouldn't need the microphone for that. Like maybe just listen, maybe just dig and I'm not saying that you know there's nothing wrong with her album, but everyone has like critiques and stuff like that 100%. But yeah, I do think that we can be a bit too quick to jump on certain things, and it's like maybe let's um think, have conversations before we all just go yell at each other.
SPEAKER_00:I think it's almost like it's an ego thing, right? Everyone wants to be the first to know everything they want to be. I told you so moments, and I think we're missing the fact of the mirror exposure effect as well. Like that is so powerful. And for those that don't know what the mere exposure effect is, it's basically like if you hear a song once, of course, you're not gonna like it. You hear it multiple times, you're like, oh yeah. And then by the tenth time, you're like, I really like this song. It takes like consistent, and that's exactly marketing in a nutshell. You need to be creating that consistency, people need to be seeing you, feeling familiar with you, knowing what you are. If you're changing things left, right, and center, which is where brand identity really kind of stems from. If you're going to change the way you speak and you're going to change who's fronting the brand, and you're going to change your fonts every five seconds, then people don't feel comfortable because they don't know what's coming next.
SPEAKER_02:No, no, same with your content, to be honest. Like, I think that's one of the biggest issues. And like, I actually write content pillars completely backwards to everyone else, but when people get it, they're like, you know what? That makes sense. And to be honest, coming into becoming a content creator is what made me do that. Is for years your content pillars were education, behind the scenes, in uh entertaining, inspirational. And I would go, cool. Do you know what to post though? Like that's telling you what type, but does anyone know what? So when I became a content creator for everyone listening, um I the only reason I did was I was like, wow, I need to know TikTok to like teach people. Um, then I just kind of went down a wormhole of accidentally becoming a career creator. Now I'm just like kind of leaning into more me as a person. It's a real event. Yeah, like tell them that. I really love your page. It's Career Girl Diaries, yeah? That's what it is. I've actually read. Brand it to just be me because yeah, when I first started it, yeah, cool, all right. Yeah, when I first started it, it um yeah, I didn't even mean to, but my team gave me uh said I gave really good career advice, so I started posting career content and career advice online for young people, and it blew up, it went off, and I was like, Oh my god, and then everyone's like, Are you a career creator? Uh, like uh sorry, a career coach. I was like, No, like I work for marketing. Um, so then I kind of felt a bit lost with it, and I had this thing, and I was like, what am I doing with this? Um, but then I was like lean into it. I was like, you know what? I'm just gonna lean into it, enjoy it. But I then when we talk about identity, I was like, I don't really associate myself with the name girl. Like I've grown up, my audience first was early career. Now everyone's like 25 to 35. Like I'm trying to build a tech startup that we hope to one day get venture capital funding. Thought if I go and then they're like, Oh, you're the career girl diers. I'll be like, oh, that's disgusting. Um so now I've like opened it up to be me, which the audience was like, Yes, I agree. Um, and then but it's honestly my testing ground for me to be able to test content because my the hill I will die on is I don't believe you can be telling someone how to make content if you don't do it yourself.
SPEAKER_00:Correct. I use I've been testing mine for that. I haven't been posting to the feed, I test through stories. I've got a really high engagement rate through stories, and I mean that's classic ADHD. I'm like, this is my topic for the day, blah, blah, blah, blah. And then I, you know, and it was mainly because I didn't know what I wanted to create. And I I think that coming back to what you just said then, and for anyone that's a founder, like this is a really important conversation, I guess, from a personal brand perspective, uh, aligning with a business brand, is that, you know, I don't want to be identity is multifaceted. You don't want to be seen as just, I don't want to be seen as just brands because I'm such a bigger thinker than that. And I was like, but I want to talk about systemic change and I want to talk about neurodivergence, um, you know, and I want to talk about motherhood. And I'm like, how in the hell do I talk about this many subjects? And it was, it was really, I was struggling a lot. Uh, and it was the same as you when I went to speak at the comeback conference, and it just started to, you know, identity in the new consumer. And it was, it was a massive eye-opener for me to be like, all of these things that I want to talk about are actually impacting the way that we consume and buy from brand. And I was like, it's fucking identity. That's that's that that's what I'm talking about. It's beh how we behave as in a society, and it's how we I like align our identity and beliefs. And once I got that out, I was like, great, now I can talk about all of this stuff because at the end of the day, I'm basically talking about systems and how we fit into systems and ideologies, and then it all just and then I actually changed your one and only because now it's aligned to those that want to, you know, impact systemic change. They're here to create change. And and after I that's when everything started to come in because everything started to align.
SPEAKER_02:But yeah, yeah, well, you found the through line. Yeah, you found the through line. So there's there's like there's two parts of it, right? It's kind of like so those content pillars of like those, oh, education, aspiration. I genuinely think they're bullshit because I don't think that you could sit there, look at that, and go, oh, I have 10 ideas right now. I flip that and I say, what are the three to four topics that are the buckets that you want to speak about that you can become known for? And it sits within that. Because realistically, you know, if you go hard in on a niche and you're only this thing, it's very hard to get out of that thing as well. It's very hard for someone to go to you for that as well. So it should be three to four things about that as well for a brand. But then if someone goes, we have this random idea, if you can't align it to what we are and what we're known for, don't post it. But if you then want to evolve, it's that true line. So for me, I'd built a following talking about careers, but also within that, I talked about careers, women's relationship to ambition, burnout. People watch me as my journey, and I realized they're not here and they don't, and look, some people probably are, and they're gonna drop off. And that is the if you make a pivot, you have to accept the fact you are going to drop. I haven't had another, you know, four million view videos since I've made this change, and that is the hill that I just like am going to die on, is like you, if you want to make a pivot, you have to be realized that not everyone's gonna come with you, and that's fine. So obviously, they're like, here's the tips to do this, this, and this in your career. I don't do those now. But it is more than I actually realized that instead of talking at people, when you give advice, people attach to the topic. They don't attach to you, they attach to the topic. And that means you could drop off the face of the earth tomorrow, but if someone else talks about the topic, they get what they need from that other person. If you talk about the topic, but through you, and you can go, here's this thing, but then here's mine, or here's how I'm doing, here's what this looks like, they attach to you as a person. So what I'm looking like, instead of talking at people goes, here's advice, I'm inviting them into me in my world of building this startup, you know, and a lot of things with me in my career that then there's lessons and learnings and advice for someone, but it's more through what I'm learning in real time with them and the questions and how I'm navigating that, not here's what I would have done in the past. And the only reason that I could do that is genuinely because before I was in corporate. So, you know, there's only so many things you can say online of what you're doing. But now that we are co-founding, Ryan and I are very passionate about building in public. Like LinkedIn is our place, that is where our ICP is. Um, Ryan posts satire on LinkedIn, and it's actually like offensive. He's amazing at it. I love it. I know it's offensive how many friends message me and tell me how like great his content is. I'm like, excuse me, what about mine? So yeah, he has his style, I have mine, and we are building in public on there so that people are starting to understand it. I think a lot of people think, oh, I can't build on public because I don't have it sorted, I don't have it all figured out yet. But we didn't, we haven't. Like, just bring people along because if you can even build to an element of people going, I don't know what it is, but I want to know what it is, then that's where the people are like, I'm coming with you, because right now attention is that new currency, and there is never an opportunity to build wait lists to be able to build demand before you launch and all those kind of things. So, yeah, in terms of that um that ability to know what posters have found the lead, definitely through line, through line of your business and then the content pillars of the topics, those types are underneath. Aspirational content is you know, but it's not aspirational content of talking about, you know, like cats, it's aspirational content of talking about what you actually do.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, yeah, I found yeah, I found that really the moment that I found, and I mean it I didn't want to you one. I have a big uh a big reception when I talk about Ari. So obviously, those that don't haven't heard, Ari's had a transplant. My son is six. Um, and when I talk about Ari, I find that I get a lot of mothers, and I don't know whether that's because maybe I've gone through something that they haven't gone through, so they see me as going through something more than, and it's kind of like, okay, there's someone that's gone through this, I can kind of do it, is the vibe that I get. Or it's more about me just because I'm very vulnerable, like I don't really care. I'm like, this is what's happened to me. Yeah, and um, what's happening in someone's world is not always going to be the same as what happens in your world, and so I've come from a company, like you know, the business was killing it, you know, and then we went through a series of unfortunate events, and then now I've had to regrow, absolutely flipped it this year. I'm so freaking palmed with myself, but it was it took some time to do that, and so I just wanted to kind of align myself with those people that were building and not succeeding, like all of these one percenters. And I just kept saying things like, um, it's easy to win when you're winning. So I can tell you that from experience. When I had funding, it was easy to invest, it was easy to outsource, it was easy to be in a good mindset because you could be, right? And um, that really helped. But when you are literally bank account empty, trying to fight these external narratives of why don't you just quit, and people putting pressure on you, and then you've got other things to do, and you've got to put food on the table, like that that place is really fucking hard. Oh, it's horrific. When you talk about that, you bring in connection, and um, what I found from that is I've been showing people what I was doing, and so from that came obviously me re-medicating for ADHD. And so it was like I hadn't been medicated for 20 years, and look, here I am. Yeah, changed my fucking life. So, you know, that conversation around the stigma on medication, it was these were just natural conversations, obviously moved from motherhood into you know, my first podcast that I did, the word be was just basically an open journal of me going through postpartum depression. Feel free, go listen, love that. But then I stopped because I then didn't relate to it. So I kind of go, oh, okay, that was a moment. I'm fine with that being a part of the history. But what I learned from that was how to make a podcast.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah, 100%, 100%. Yeah, oh, that's the same with like because I hit full-blown burnout burnout in 2021. And I think there's different levels of burnout, like all things in life, you know, we can say, Oh, I'm burnt out, and like, and I'm not saying that my burnout was worse than others. I'm not gonna be like that person that's like your trauma's not real, mine was worse. I'm not being like that, but I'm like, I was like like two years to to recover, like medically, it was it was horrible. And the only reason I speak about that, and I didn't even have social media back then in terms of like my own profiles. I took photos because I said to myself, you will never get back to here. Yes, you will never get back to this point, I will never become this broken version of myself again. So when more and more conversations of burnout started happening, I just felt like I hadn't kind of met someone that has avoided habitual burnout and isn't going back into it all the time. I I have never worked more. These literally by the end of this year, I've spent two years working. I haven't done anything else. I have not done anything else other than working. And I don't have an issue with that. I believe life comes in seasons, seasons. I believe we have done the biggest sprint, not only in like success in terms of like achieving things. There's been some absolutely unreal things that like on paper or on an Instagram feed look like success. The person who I am compared to when I finished like at corporate last year, completely different person. So I think I've had an extremely strong sprint to then go into the marathon, but I have not burnt out. Like, and I have been working seven days purpose driven though, right?
SPEAKER_00:Like that's a big difference. 100% when you're a purpose, massive difference in purpose.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah. And very um, very much like I know the habits that do well for me and I know when not to, and I know what's setting off and stuff like that. I'm very good at kind of being like, these are the non-negotiables. So like in the morning, I walk on my treadmill um with a book every morning. Like that's my thing for 30 minutes, don't talk to me. I and I read fiction now because I feel like non-fiction, it's like your brain actually needs something a little bit creative. Um, I do a yeah, I do a five-minute gratitude gratitude meditation in the morning of like the three things you're really looking forward to. Set your day up. Um, and I, yeah, I have boundaries on and off in terms of like how I go about things. And I know and I can say to myself, this is not a bad forever, this is just a bad day, or like you're actually exhausted, or no, it is that one day before your period where you've you actually are just crazy. Like it's not that's quit you're just you just you're just crazy today, babe. Like it's just it's just today, and you know you will wake up and feel different tomorrow. And you just go into the Stardust app and you're like, oh, it's the day, and everyone knows that day.
SPEAKER_00:And not only that, like I think that I've really figured out when I'm going to be my most creative in alignment cycle. And no one's talking about this, and I'm like, okay, if I'm five days out from my period, that is a no, do not launch anything, do not do anything big, like plan, like keep that shit like meaning-free, like, you know, and you can plan for that. It's that and that's just another thing to add to the women's collection of things to deal with. But no, I mean, so it's such I think that these are the things, right? You learn of where what you how you got there and how not to get so in alignment to I've just been building and building and building. I've skipped, you know, on Monday I was at home, Ryan took the kids. One thing I won't do is jeopardize my time with my kids.
SPEAKER_02:So um, I think that we could all get like hit by a bus tomorrow. Like, I completely agree with you. I will work until the nth degree, but I would rather work longer days to then exactly go, phone is off, don't like that's a thing. Because I I completely agree with you. I think that genuinely that it's so true. And I don't know if it's because I met a lot of people that their dads weren't around when they were kids, but no one will remember the like the late nights that you work more than your children. 100%.
SPEAKER_00:And uh, like even so Ari said to me last night, and thank this is why I didn't say anything, but he was in my bed this morning, completely off topic, but kind of related. And um, he's six, and I'm like, roll over. He goes, Oh, you're so annoying. And I said, You're annoying, you're in here stopping me sleeping. And he goes, Well, mate, this is what he says to me, old mate, six-year-old. Well, maybe you shouldn't stay up so late watching TV and eating ice cream, and you wouldn't be so tired. And I was like, I was working, but you know what? I'm not even gonna correct him on that. I would rather him think that I was up watching TV and eating ice cream. Do you know what I mean? Because that is almost an element of self-care. Yeah, yeah. I was like, I'm not even gonna say that I was working. That's what I do. They go to bed and then I crack back open my laptop. Um it is, like you said, it is a sprint, but and you and I both know these past few years have been freaking manic for so many different people, but it's the changes in everything as well, you know, off the back of and I think coming into this period was relatively easy, you know. Like to get clients.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah, it was it was a completely different world in terms of getting clients. There's never been more competition, there's never been more cowboys that sell a dream, but then realistically they're giving you absolutely nothing. Um, yeah, there's a lot of people that come into industries that are unregulated in marketing and branding. Anyone can call themselves great at it. So it's never been harder to then go, hang on, well, why me? And then prove that and then show that as well. But it also just means that there's never been a better opportunity for if you've got a really great idea to like build that in public and show it. And I just think that there's a lot of conversations that I strongly believe in order to do like have an extraordinary life, you have to do really big extraordinary things. And that as someone who has recovered from burnout, and I'm not saying hustle, grind, servant does the worry. I hate those people because my number one question, and if you've ever met them and it's a man, ask them. Yes, when you were doing that, one, were you married? Two, did your wife have your clothing on uh washed, your food on the table and um your house clean? And three, who looked after your kids? I love having that conversation.
SPEAKER_00:But on the flip- and if I grab the wife drought if anyone's interested.
SPEAKER_02:But what I'm saying is like if you want to actually achieve really big things, it does take it. And it does take sacrifice. And I think that that doesn't mean that that's for everyone. I think that we can really define what success means like for us. Like, I a lot of my friends, no one works for themselves. Like, I have friends that do work for themselves, but majority don't. And they don't want what I what I'm doing. And if anything, I more cry probably to my mum all the time, being like, I wish I could just be happy and settled. Like, I just wish I could just be someone that's able to be happy, but in that way. But I just believe that, yeah, like on the other end of just you really want a big life, you have to put in big effort. You'd be bored.
SPEAKER_00:Like, it's like that's even when I was working in corporate, it was like uh I was studying and doing side hustles at the same time. Like, I feel like at least when you put all your energy and passion into creating something great, because you are like you're doing something great. I'm trying to do something for progressive change. Like, if you're doing something that is trying to change something in some way or because which is essentially what everyone is doing, because otherwise, why would you just not go buy some other product?
SPEAKER_02:It's to create something that doesn't feel like no, and I think it like at the realm of trying to you know kill uh hustle culture and quit quiet quitting and you know, like the avoiding burnout, we've lost the narrative that like ambition and and like working hard is a really, really good thing. And not only that, but like if I so I've said that I've spent the last two years like working really hard, and I'd say to people like there are times when I work seven days a week, if I was training for a marathon and I was having to make sacrifices, no one would question that. No, no one would question if I was training for a marathon or if I was a sports star playing and doing those kind of things, or if I was studying and doing an MBA, no one would question those things. But then because I'm working and I'm building something that they can't see the other end outcome of because it's not defined. I don't know if I'm gonna hit the end of the finish line. I don't know if I'm gonna get the fancy title from the uni, that people can't then see that that value pays off because they don't know what the outcome is yet. Um, but no, I think that we just kind of lost that narrative because yeah, realistically, like I don't know if if everyone would want the life that I've had for the last two years. It was horrible. I hope it's not like that forever. I know it won't be, but it's also told me that I fuck, I can do a lot more and do bigger things than I thought I could.
SPEAKER_00:Like, what a growth period. I look back and I'm like, um, and the similar thing, you know, obviously different circumstances, but I'm like, I fucking had two children in the middle of a pandemic, one had a liver transplant and I did it. My business hasn't sunk. And I'm like, I and like, I mean, look, it got low, it's been hard, but I flipped it back around. So like we were at a loss last year, full full transparency, like 35k loss, and I've flipped it back around this year. Like we're in a positive, we're in the green. And I'm like, and it's not until you kind of go back and you're like, holy shit, like you look at those two things, and you're like, that's almost impossible for some people to be able to do that. And then this month we had the biggest income month almost in the entirety of you one and only existing. And I was like, it it sometimes it's kind of like it really is that, you know, toe the line because when you're in that really awkward something feels so off, there's you get to the point where you get sick of yourself. Like, do you know what I mean? You get you're like, what's not working here? And you just go around it, and then something happens. And do you know what? I would also put that down to speaking to different people, right? Oh, a hundred percent. My god, if you stay in that, you know, you think chat is going to give you the answer, you'll keep you're gonna just gonna keep funneling the same problem through and getting the same regurgitated answer out. And one person that you can speak to can completely shift your thinking in any direction. So I've been investing a lot into like networking and visibility and moving into places that will put me in front of different people, and it's just made a world of difference, you know.
SPEAKER_02:Also, people doing bigger things, like if you you can only see because people, it's the same as like if you say to someone, I'm gonna go and do this thing and they don't see it, then they can't support you in it because to them they're like, Oh, what do you mean? But I I I'm part of the Commons workplace and I work out of a place in Cremon, and Cremont is like the new tech hub, it's like where everyone is in Melbourne kind of thing, and I love it. And the amount of people that I'm around, I think that like even just my confidence in terms of like, I know this sounds stupid because I've been posting online for like two years, but like my confidence of posting, putting yourself out there, selling yourself and all those kind of things, like it is so much more because I'm around people that I'm going, your life changed, or you got that thing, or you did that because you did that, you know, all of these other things. So by being around really, really ambitious women, mostly women, um, that are actually able to then show you what it looks like and what your effort pays off can be, then you can dream bigger as well. So I definitely believe that kind of like the more that we support around that, I think that um we talk a lot about talk poppy syndrome in Australia, a hundred percent. And I think it's difficult and it is a smaller market. I will say also though, that if you post online, you are one degree of separation from anyone that you want to meet if you live in a capital city. Yes, like genuinely. I the it just feels so small. Like when you see, I mean, like, how do you know that person? How do you know that person? And it just you can get to where you want and how you want to be able to like be known with people.
SPEAKER_00:So yeah, if anything from a right, I think this is the biggest thing is to ask. If you I think people just think that it's going to come to them, it's like these people have put themselves in positions. So when you say someone is lucky, sure, they can be lucky, and time and place is important, but also they're lucky because they put themselves in a place that has allowed them an opportunity as well.
SPEAKER_02:So preparation meets opportunity, huge. Yeah, yeah, absolutely. And like that's where I think also as women, we kind of don't identify that we did put that preparation in, and then we call ourselves just lucky and we diminish or we downplay our success. Whereas realistically, well, no, it's not that you had this success today. It was actually the 10 years before. And that could also be quite said as well that you know, I only started working myself last year, and then now we're in doing this and we're building this tent and all these things. But like I was in corporate for 10 years. Honestly, the skills that I built to use.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah.
SPEAKER_02:No, exactly, exactly. I was just playing a different game and stuff as well. So I think that I had had to really kind of um appreciate myself for that. Because if anything, the hedonic treadmill, if you kind of keep going for the next thing, you'll realize that it's called an arrival fallacy for a reason. You're not going to get funding and be happy. You're not going to get a million dollars and be happy. Like, there's not this thing that you will arrive to because as humans, we're always if you're ambitious enough to like want to do more, you'll never be happy in that. Cause like it's who you become. So I definitely find um if there's anything I would recommend to do, especially if you're a businesswoman, is especially if you're building something, please video yourself. Like video and not to show anyone, just for you. Video diaries to yourself. I have so many beautiful videos of that. And the funny thing is, Ryan and I, obviously, because we live in different countries, we have that of us talking to camera individually, mentally going, like, is this gonna work? Are we gonna do this thing? What are we building? And like just the fact that we can now watch back on that and be like, oh my god, these people had no idea. And so it's just really nice to kind of like, however, you can capture a video journal, write it down or something, and then you can read it back because it's just a really good uh website.
SPEAKER_00:Was that Letters to Me or something? Yeah, it's we'll send you your letter back to yourself a year later. I have something that I wrote down in 2022, and whoa, was I in a different place? I was like, I almost wanted to cry for her. I was like, whoa, like it was it was and just to show how far, like, you know, there was it and you know, because you're in that place, you remember feeling that emotion. I think this is the difference between um, you know, men and women in terms of networking groups. I was in a women's networking group with women that was like self-put together off the back of another one. And um, you know, they were we were all, I was one of the youngest in the group. So these women were like, they're like looking more towards exit strategies, and they're in the their senior part of their career. And just the advice that I got from some, and you know, they are like do not give a shit type of women. Like, you know, they're at that stage where they're like, you know, we're out, wearing menopausal, like we don't, you know, they're full on. And the it was the emotional advice that I actually received from them because if you and like you were saying before about all these hustle borries, you know, they get on and they talk about how they work all night and blah blah blah, but you know, as women, we we actually can't do that in a lot of circles, especially if you're a mother, you can't do that because sorry, patriarchy hasn't, you know, diminished yet, so it's still very prevalent. And we see this in everyday circumstances of just just the expectation that you have to be a mother in business or a woman in business versus being, you know, if you're uh you know 30 something and you haven't had kids yet, you're oh why aren't you having a kid? And if you are a mother, why aren't you with your kids? Like if you're doomed if you do, doomed if you don't. So I think when you those people, you know, that understand that whether they've had them, whether they haven't, and both there's a mix of both, and I, you know, I am all for either. You know, I've got kids and I do not, you know, I if you don't want them, I am so here.
SPEAKER_02:Like live your best life. No, completely agree. And I think yeah, the power of networking with women who are really ambitious and driven and doing things is because you will never be too much when you're around the right women that also know that uh if they are ambitious and they step into that bigness of themselves and they are very owning of their success, then they are too much or they are too driven or they are too bossy. You know, we tell that men um, you know, they're oh, he's just like very powerful and he knows what he wants to go after. But if a woman is um too driven, then she's a bitch. And you will never feel like that, and you will never feel like you're too much when you're around the right, ambitious, successful women, because they don't need to see that their success is diminished at the level of yours because they feel very secure of it as well. And it is very natural, and I'm not saying that people always do that from a malicious point. It's very easy that if someone is doing something that you want to do, it becomes the mirror of like, oh, you know, this is showing that I haven't done this within myself. And I'm not saying that I haven't felt that as well. We all can do it as well. But if you definitely feel like you're in a room where women aren't helping opening doors for you, there are better rooms to be in. Like I've met them, I am one of them women, and I love being in those spaces where people can kind of open doors with other women and stuff that um, yeah, they'll never make you feel like you're too much because for them, you're just as driven.
SPEAKER_00:I think it's also um so for me, I'm I'm always a champion of women, right? Like I understand internalized misogyny. Um, that doesn't negate the fact that I've also felt that, you know, during times when I felt like I should have been somewhere else. And I think that that's a really important thing to know that there's a difference between, you know, and I would say stuff like, Oh, I don't get why they're there and I'm not when I've had this much more experience. And it's not an uh it wasn't to say, oh, they're shit. It was like a why haven't I done this yet? Yes. And so, you know, I speak out loudly, and but that but I was like confident enough in myself to know that this was just just shit had happened. And it's also important to to be able to self-reflect that it's no one's fault as to why where you are where you are. Um things can happen to you, but it really is about how you handle those things. And yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_02:I mean, you're not responsible for what happened to you, but you're responsible for how you let it um, you know, kind of like uh control you. But just because it's not happening for you now doesn't mean it won't happen for you forever. You know what I mean? There are people out in the world that are definitely doing things. I'm like, oh my god, I want to do that. Doesn't mean I'm not going to do it because I'm not doing it right now. Put it on your vision board, be looking at it, have it as that guide, have it as that guiding light because I think as well, I am very much driven by I have things that I um want to do career-wise, but I genuinely believe that like at the end of the day, if we want to see systematic change, women need money, power, and influence. I want to be a woman that you know has the money to be able to help other women do money, power, and influence. So I I want to be someone that is in that position to be able to do those things. I think there's a lot of things that we want to fix, but that's how we're gonna be able to fix them. Honey good men.
SPEAKER_00:I think you know what's interesting. That's one of the, if there's a founder led brand that I'm working with, it's one of the things that I ask them is like, what's your version of wealth? Um, I think that's a really important question because a lot of people think that money is wealth. Money is a part of wealth, you know, social wealth and friendships and environmental wealth, and we have, you know, obviously mental mental wealth, like your how you're emotional wealth. So I think that when you can tick all those boxes, for me, it's not a massive income. It's just like I want to live comfortably, have a nice life with my kids and be able to give back somehow. That to me is the you know, the be all and all for me. I don't want business class and you know, if that's your thing, totally get it. But like it's just not my uh in brand as well. I'm not sold my brain.
SPEAKER_02:I'm like, oh no, I I would say, yeah, I I'm I like nice things, but I'm not a materialistic person. I would definitely say I was I I've been in that phase. I had the Botox, I had the designer handbags, I cared about where I was going for dinner, I lived that life. Did you ever have pegged you for that type of person either? Hell yeah, you should have seen me a few years ago. I was like, I look in front of Zen, I was like, damn, girl. Like, but it didn't make me happy. If anything, I actually hated that I'd be sitting somewhere with a designer handbag and then I remember the one girl this one night. I was like, oh, um, I was like, I like your bag. And she's like, oh, it's nothing like yours. And I was like, oh, this, I don't like that it didn't, I don't like that how it made someone else feel. And I don't, I know that sounds fair. I sold them all, I haven't had Botox in. Um, and that's also because I really realized that I wanted to go for this and build it. And I agree with you, like right now, I have never been in the least wealthy position financially. Like, we're a startup, babe. Like, I pay myself what I was earning like nine years ago. Like I was a chief customer officer, like I have downgraded significantly. Like, significantly. I'm going backwards. But I feel so wealthy. I feel like I have I am driven to get out of bed every day. I can work seven-day weeks and feel good about it. I have like the coolest people around me. I have opportunities, and I'm like, what do you mean I'm doing that? And I'm like, that's that's wealth, you know, that that is that is wealth to me. But I think if I my big Harry Audacious goal is definitely leave the earth in the better place than where you got here. Um, I am not smart in like a science or something way. I'm a marketer. So I'm like, okay, money power, influence, tech, go in that money, angel investor. I'm like, I'm like my my brain goes to that. I would love to be someone that like makes a big medical breakthrough, not me. Um, I count with my fingers. Um I like to say that I'm giving platform, helping amplify the voices that need to be heard. It's like I completely agree. I definitely thought that as well. Like that's where um we work with a lot of founders, actually. And I actually thought about that when I was going through burnout. I got sent this unreal book from someone um that was a psychologist. And I thought, why don't more people not know about that? And I thought, you know what, I can't fix burnout um for people and write this book, but I can make sure that a lot more people know about it.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, right, totally.
SPEAKER_02:So that's why I started talking about burnout. I was like, I can't fix it, but I just want more people to go, oh shit, she looks like trash in that first photo. And that's how I feel right now. Maybe I am burnt out. I'm like, yeah, babe, don't be me.
SPEAKER_00:It really is those stories, and I think like and I like going through it at the time, like no one they kind of need the success story at the end, but you when you're kind of in the middle of it, I've found that. So like I found that more people would kind of come in after I was like winning, and I was like, This is interesting, different perspective perception, but they also Needed to know that I lost. It was like I've been there. So I find that, and coming from what you just said, it's the lived experience that I think people are really resonating with now. They don't want to see these people that have just, you know, just keep winning and there's no loss, there's no real trauma. Like, because most, let's put it this way, most of the world have experienced some form of trauma over the last five years. And so if you're just going, like, I'm winning, I'm winning, I'm winning, and you're not showing any losses, they're not believing you. Like they're not so it's becoming that's why the aesthetics are moving, and people want to see the gritty stuff, and they need to see you, you know. And I think that that's you know, our personalities are shiny because we're all like, here's all of my news and information. And they're like, Wow, I know everything about you, and like, oh no, just worry about it.
SPEAKER_02:Oh, and also just like as we spoke about before when you were talking about the brand that like, you know, goes for high level, but they're not like that. I probably struggled really with online and I probably still do a bit now, but like I am not an aesthetic person. If anything, I joke, I love wearing crocs and socks. 90 90% of the time you will find me in crocs or socks or very expensive shoes. That's my thing. There's no um it is it is I realize it's to the point where I will go to events and people like, oh, you're not wearing crocs and socks. I'm like, no, okay. But it's like a thing. I'm like, I feel like the no one can be better than you in a time when everyone is trying to be like each other, in a time when AI is just making like absolute beige millennial houses out of any scenario in life. There has never been a better opportunity to lean into who you are. So I lean into that pretty bogan, got a pretty bogan accent. Yeah, I wear white cowboy boots, I love crocs and socks. I will wear a suit or be wearing white crocs and socks, like there is no in between. And I would love to say that there is, and I would love to say that I'm a lot more aesthetic than that, but unfortunately, that is not who I am.
SPEAKER_00:So it's also really interesting that I think people put this fabrication on, like, you know, they're working with these big brands, right? And they they see all these, you know, and I'm like, but that's that's the corporation, there's still people within that. There's people in that work biggest brands, and the people that are in there like, wow, they had mouths like sailors, like we got on our orbs. Yeah, but like it was like you guys would not imagine what that is. So you've got to remember that there's people and there's decision makers that are the people. And I honestly believe, you know, the the the job that we just secured that with our recent, we all just vibe like straight away. It's that when you are you, you generate more people that are like you the moment that you start to be something that you're not, you will just you'll mask. You'll mask in.
SPEAKER_02:Well, you own your energy, you know. Everything in life is energy. What the energy you put out, people feel it back, you know what I mean? Like, and I think that when you are truly own into your energy, and it's something that as we're going through this startup world, and I'm going to startup events with other founders, it is very easy when you're when you're a startup to go, oh, so we're trying to do this thing. Oh, we're trying to build up, oh, we're on a mission to no, we take the value, the anxiety out of knowing what to post in social media. I just say it and I'm just confident in it. And everyone's like, oh, cool. And I think that that element of what you give out is what someone understands within you. And when you just are so this is who I am and just own into it, um, more people want to align into that. You know, I'm waiting for the day that crocs are just like, let's do a brand collab. And I'll be like, that is the best day of my life.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah. And you know, and this is what I think makes your your tech so good is that you know, when people know that and then you funnel that information in, there's ways that it can then, you know, extrapolate all of the bits and pieces to make sure that there's brand story involved. One thing that I'm doing at the moment, which I find super helpful, is um when I'm trying to do my strategy for the month or what I'm what I'm wanting to do is I actually just ask myself questions and then I answer them in long form because I'm a verbal processor. So, you know, you'll get you'll get 50,000 roundabouts with me. Whereas if you ask me to answer questions in you know, writing, I I I it will go through the process and then I won't execute. So, like some of those things that you say kind of come out a lot better. So it it it it kind of really is as well. Like, what's the best best communication method for you to be able to get your ideas out on paper? You could write, you know, you could uh have a conversation with people, like whatever it is. But that's what I think is awesome about what you're doing is that you're able to kind of take the way that people are thinking and allowing them to be creative, but taking that tedious shit in the middle out so they don't have to worry about it, they can just be who they can. I love that.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah, no, I appreciate it. Yeah, that's um who knows? Maybe we'll do this in five months' time and I'll be like a whole different version of me.
SPEAKER_00:Like no, she's changed again. Here we go. But that's that's the that's that's the whole thing with branding, isn't it? And I think business ownership founders is you do evolve, your identity does evolve. And I've got two business ideas sitting there, right? So they're ready to go, but I'm fixing one before I start three more because we know that you know emotional angst involves in building. But that was one of the things that made me realize if I have a personal brand and then I have two brands, like is this going to translate across two different brands? And it the answer was no. So I needed to go, okay, what conversation do I need to leave at the top level that will allow me to position these underneath?
unknown:Yeah.
SPEAKER_00:Have that conversation. And I think that that's kind of where we came from. But it's, you know, like we are in the game and look how much we've had to go through an identity shifting.
SPEAKER_02:Absolutely. And like you're never gonna have it right. And I think that we freak out thinking, oh my god, but like I'm gonna screw it up, and people are gonna think and people are gonna say, first of all, no one who's doing more and no one who's having a go is going to judge you. Any of us that are posting online, genuinely not gonna be the first person to judge you. Probably gonna be the first person to come, like, slay queen. Like that's something, yeah. Yeah, and then the second one is like you're never gonna know because you need to learn and you actually should allow your space to like you deserve to fail, you deserve to iterate and learn and test and trial, and like that is the best part about working something out. You know what I mean? It's the difference between if I like gave you a hundred thousand dollar car or you worked and you worked so hard to you got so much appreciation for it. Yeah, but exactly as you'd said, like the reason of why mine is changing with my personal brand is because I um, yeah, exactly that. I was like, I need this to be me, step into being a creator and stepping into that space of like not giving career advice, but as we go through this, what I think about and like how I can kind of share that with others. But I'm the same as well. I'm ADHD, like I've got other business ideas, like I want to be this the thing that then you know I also joke with people and I'm like, oh, I'm a pale redhead, like you will never see me at the beach, lying on the beach like a rotisserie chicken. Like I'm from a surfing town, like I don't do that. I I go to the beach at like 10 a.m. with like full, like yeah, I'm like I'm in a big hat, but also plus size, so uh plus size, plus size, someone thought I was 26 the other week and I'm almost 33, so it's like yeah, um yeah, I'm like one day I'll make like a clothing brand about like you know, beach wear that's like for sun safety but looks good. It's just that, isn't it?
SPEAKER_00:It's not so natural, and someone will be like, oh yeah, that redhead that like you know to the exact thing that I've been trying to say to people with the rise of AI, I think a lot of people are feeling like there's a clock. Um and what that's doing is it's it's eliminating creativity and putting pressure on people to just produce shit. And which is why I pulled right back because on the very first post-it note, you remember they tell you why did you start your business? I remember this and I still live by it, is don't put shit to market. Written on that don't do it. And that means that you know, don't get caught up in the I guess the rush of what everyone else is doing. Don't get into it and build slowly. You don't need to build fast. There is no there is no pressure to build fast because the best ideas always come through the process.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah. Um we've seen that let yourself put out, you have to like allow yourself to put shit out. Like you have to appreciate the fact that like anyone that has learned how to snowboard, you were really shit. Like you were really, really shit at it at the beginning. And like when I say to people with content, especially when they're first starting, I was like, genuinely, for the first like 150 posts, I just want you to post. I just want you to get it out. I want you to get rid of your customer service voice, I want you to actually blink on camera, like I want you to um realize because the only way content, if you want to build a personal brand and a founder-led brand, the only way you will enjoy content is if you enjoy uh creating content. If you are enjoying the creative process, it doesn't matter what other anyone else or negativity says because you're having fun. Like if you are having fun in the process, that's the best part. All of my channels, I just have fun. I post sometimes silly funny memes. I think they're funny. A lot of them recently got like 495,000 views. And I was like, ha ha, everyone else thinks I'm funny.
SPEAKER_00:I have a good time. I love that. It is, and that's and that's where the lack of ability comes from, right? It's so it's so important because I think uh, and one of the questions that I have on our form is like, why did you decide to work with us? And a lot of the times, like, oh, your personality or it's the way that you do it, it's never because you design well. No, it's like not fun, we vibe, like it's it's vibe and passion. So I think that's where the identity comes in. Building in public is really important because it's showing your passion, it's showing tenacity, it's showing resilience. Like, you know, I think people fail. I keep saying this to my husband, it's like I'm like, you haven't struggled and it shows. Oh, yeah, yeah, you can definitely say that to some people. You have to because it it actually just enables you to handle more stress. Oh, absolutely. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Oh great.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah, you know, but no, if anyone wants to build in public, like genuinely, document. Don't, don't sit, don't create, don't be like this is the perfect thing. Document, enjoy it, have fun, let yourself be creative, let yourself be cringe. Um, the only you're only gonna get over the other side of cringe mountain as the person who has gotten over that other side, and the people from high school that used to bully them and now are just like, oh, how do I become like you? And you're like, well, um, yeah. It's great. It's great over the other side of cringe mountain. We're here, we're living our best lives. Um, and genuinely, anyone that's having a go, no one is going to judge you. But all those people that posting online has changed their business and changed their life will tell you that was the thing. And it is the thing that I think it's so easy for us to then go, oh, I'll do it in six months' time. I guarantee you, in six months' time, if there is one thing in your business you wish you did six months earlier, it is genuinely posting online because it is like a lottery. It is you do just put out, out, out, out, out, and then an email comes in, you're like, Where respectfully the fuck did that come from?
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, and you know so I found that, well, I mean, it's going shorter now, which is the important part of it, but I found that there was during the rough period, you know, when everyone was kind of pulling back, it was it was like a genuine eight to nine month lead time. So that's like how long people were following before they actually started to engage. And you know, when people are holding on to their money because they're not sure what's happening, I think it's easy now. Like, I think it's I've noticed a big change.
SPEAKER_02:Yes, oh, for sure. They just get cautious because everyone's like coaches to coaches and not coaching with coaching about coaching. Everyone's like, I can I I cannot, I cannot get another bad haircut from a coach, like absolutely not.
SPEAKER_00:It's yeah, I think that there's been yeah, a big shift, and I think that it's been and I always say this about Taylor Swift, right? Is that she's been the same person the whole time and it's kind of like she's got this big and they're like, oh, she's always been like this, and it's kind of given her that reputation, right? Yeah, and it's the same with brands like so. I've I've had my I've just did my 80th episode of my podcast. Um, this is my 81st, and then I've got you know like two years worth of my emails, and it's taken that long for the thing to start to tick up. And it's like, you know, LinkedIn was the same, it's been a year, and I've slowed the bell curve is slowly going up. And I'm like, I would have quit ages ago, right? Because people look at it and they go, oh, 11 likes, or oh, seven likes. And it's like realistically, imagine having that many people in a room with you, and I think we're so used to these thousand numbers, like when you really just need one person to buy for you.
SPEAKER_02:Oh, and also just like I feel like we have just lost sense of the fact that like you actually get to a point where you don't actually have to be better, you just have to last. Like, you genuinely it gets to a point where it's like it's the hunger games. Literally, literally, like the amount of people that drop off, like, and I'm pretty sure Alex Mosey also says this, and I'm not trying to be Alex Mosey right now, but genuinely, like there is an element where most people like they only fail if you stop, and it's because they drop off. So, yeah, I just joke to people, everyone's like, How are you? And I'm like, never been worse, but honestly, can only fail if I if I stop.
SPEAKER_00:100%. And um, yeah, I think that the more people realize that that there's I think that this is the conversation, is it that you have this open discussion that more people see it and they go, Okay, this is normal. It's not those guys over there. I think Purcell posted something the other day about how many Australian businesses actually earn over a hundred thousand dollars. It's like oh literally, yeah, it was go and look at it, it's really cool. So it was like between a hundred thousand to five hundred thousand, you're in the top 20%. I said to Ryan C top 20, mate, top 20. Like, so I was like, you know, you think about that and you're like, oh, I'm not doing enough. And really, like the the million dollar mark with these big organizations, or you've had immense success, you've done well. Like, so I think that these people are looking at all these people online crappy, and you know what really gets me? I'm making seven figures. I'm like, that's great. I've made seven figures. What what's the str what's the stipulation here? Are we talking about the the duration of the whole business? Are we talking revenue, profit, loss?
SPEAKER_02:Like what yeah, you know, and I think but also like how long? Like I probably made almost that in my venue fucking corporate career. Right. You know what I mean? Or when they're just like, I've my rule of thumb is every anyone that says my business or I earn six figures is a hundred thousand dollars on the dot. 101 at the absolute. No one that's on 400,000 is then saying I've done six figures. So I completely agree with you. I think that everyone needs to remember, first of all, a lot of people um rent out fake spaces, people rent out fake houses, um, people make fake documents and they make fake screenshots of Stripe accounts. Um, majority of I've actually been interviewed and I had to give literal exact things to be in Business Insider to then show that I was true. But the amount of articles out there, people don't check. If you're in Daily Mail and someone's like, I'm seven figures, they don't check. Like it is completely unregulated. I could tell you right now that I am like the number one surfing champion of Australia. I carry this all the time. Who's going to check? Who's going to who's going to pull me up on it?
SPEAKER_00:Print marketing, by the way. We have I remember Telstra, we're working on Telstra. They always used to say the fastest mobile network. And then then Optus would win in like Newcastle or something. They had to change it. Like it was so I'm like, because they can't even get sued. I don't think people realize that they can actually be sued for false claims.
SPEAKER_02:So Coles was a few years ago because they they said fresh bread, but their bread was a day old, so they weren't allowed to say fresh bread anymore. They had to say like bakery or made in-house or something. They actually got done for years, they weren't allowed to say fresh bread. It's fun. Um, so yeah, no, I I think that everyone, anyone that anyone that's I've made six figures of my business doing this. No, no, no, no one's asked. No, okay. Six months in six years or six figures in one month. Also, people that are like, I've made 60 grand this month. Okay, but is that for six months of work? And was that one job, like or was it 10 jobs, like I want to do in equality? Like does your life suck to do that? Like, is that 60 grand this month and you're just like, I don't know, doing the worst job in the world? Like it's exactly. And it's just so much of online is just comparison. Like, honestly, it ain't it ain't worth it. If it's too good to be true, what a hundred percent is. And it's like track your own metrics, right? Because literally you've got to do it. You block anyone that's like anyone that's like outrageous lies and claims. I just block them, just like block them out.
SPEAKER_00:The way I say it is like, right, um, if you're you don't see Coke or any big entity get on and go, thanks so much, we sold three million cans today and made do you know how gross that would sound? Like to me, it's an ethics thing. Like, I just don't like it. And you know, it's if that works for you, great, but I just find it I just I just think that there's other different versions of like what success looks like.
SPEAKER_02:And I'm like, uh realistically, yes, I think that being relatable is what is always gonna grow a bigger following because you're you're very connected to some. Uh, I understand that for some people aspirational is it. You can be relatable to the aspiration of like I we all relate to wanting to aspire and going in that way. Absolutely, completely agree. Only do that if it's still authentic. But like if you are having to put yourself into critical debt in order to live that aspirational life to get there, I ain't it my guy. I ain't it my guy. I I've I've done all this the last two years and wearing crocs, socks, and probably the same six pairs of leggings in my house. Yeah, still got there. 100%.
SPEAKER_00:100%. Okay, that went to to full fire right to the city. How many changes that was important? That was the important part of the conversation. Like, I think when we're creating content, you've got to know the outcome. The outcome and the objective, right? If you've if you've gone a lead, this is the outcome. The outcome is what is the objective of you doing this? What are you wanting your business to do? That's the and I can't believe I did a conversation with our group uh earlier in the year, and I said, you know, and I also found out that I don't like live group coaching at all. I fucking hated it, so I'm not doing that anymore either. Not that I hated my people, I just it was a lot of a lot of anxiety for me to show up always on, just it wasn't my thing. Um, but I loved to create educational content, so I do like on-demand thing anyway, but coming totally tangent. Was I said, you know, what was the reason that you started your business for? And they all had these reasons, and I'm like, are you talking about that now? Yeah, literally, that's the story. No, and I'm like, so there's your problem. You have diverted from where you need to be, and you need to get back onto the same path. And if that path has changed, you need to figure out what that is now and then realign to it. Yeah, it's just that, right?
SPEAKER_02:Yeah, your story is what's gonna bring people along, and that's what building in public is. Start with there. I've started doing this and why. Or I started doing this, or but I will say, I swear to God, no, the you don't need to do the like, I've quit my job and I'm gonna do this business, and there's no backup plan, and I have no money, and if it absolute fact, no, like you can make good storytelling content without putting yourself in in like a really bad space.
SPEAKER_00:Money, I uh I only left because um I had and I was planning to leave, so thankfully it was the best. Um, my company went through a merger and we had the option to take a contract or a voluntary redundancy, and I was like, Thank you so much, bye. Yeah, literally. So it's like you need to know, you know, it there's got to be and also I was freelancing a good year before I was um you know in brands.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah, yeah. I set myself up very well to be able to do it. And people ask me, they're like, How much money? And I'm like, I'm not gonna give you a dollar figure because your life versus mine, everyone has their own dollar figure, but like you need to be able to survive for like six months, and probably know the finances before you start because that's kind of important. No the cost of whatever you're gonna do, but like be able to have an emergency fund of six months.
SPEAKER_00:Amazing. All right, Kim, we can talk forever, but um I can't.
SPEAKER_02:Slay, I think.
SPEAKER_00:Three, four, five series. This is a series. Um, tell everyone where they can find you.
SPEAKER_02:You can find me on Instagram and on TikTok at Kim Elizabeth James, and also the same on LinkedIn. LinkedIn is where I'm more of like a content talking about work girl, and then uh TikTok and Instagram is if you want the Crocs, the socks, the cowboy boots, and the authentic 101. Authenticity of a career girly, but not girly. Woman? Yeah. Woman.
SPEAKER_00:We've changed the language, we've grown up.
SPEAKER_02:We've changed the language, we've grown up.
SPEAKER_00:All right, legend. Uh thanks so much for having a chat. And to everyone else, I will chat to you next week. Did you like that episode? Hope so. Because if you did, why don't you head over to whatever platform you listen on and create an review? It's much appreciated and helps others know what we're about. If you want to follow us, you can find us at you on and only underscore AU on Instagram or head to www.yonononly.com.au
