Brand and Butter
The straight-talking branding podcast for leaders who refuse to settle.
Brand and Butter delivers no-BS advice on how psychology, strategy, and design create brands that work. Host Tara Ladd, founder of Your One & Only brand design studio, breaks down the real influence and power of branding – how understanding behaviour and cultural shifts can transform how people see, think, and choose.
Sometimes funny, always honest, never dull. This is the podcast that cuts through industry jargon to talk about what actually makes brands stick.
Tara Ladd is the founder of Your One and Only, who design brands that breathe with culture through psychology, strategy, and design.
Brand and Butter
Straps Off, Personality On: The Hackerlily Story with Laura Campbell
Laura Campbell was sick of pretending parenting was picture-perfect. Living with rheumatoid arthritis while raising two young children, she couldn't find a baby carrier that worked for her body, lifestyle, or style. Her solution? Design one herself – and build a brand that celebrates the messy, authentic reality of parenting.
In this episode, Laura shares her journey building Hackerlily, and how finding the right brand strategy transformed her business trajectory and messaging. We dive into the creative process she took with me at Your One and Only, and discuss her expansion plans, including retail partnerships, international distribution, and product line extensions – all made possible by establishing strong brand foundations that can scale. This conversation offers some gems on authenticity, strategic design, and building a business that resonates with your true audience.
Reach Laura:
Visit: hackerlily.com
Instagram: @_hackerlily
Linkedin: Laura Campbell
Visit https://youroneandonly.com.au/
Follow YO&O on IG https://www.instagram.com/youroneandonly_au/
Follow Tara on IG https://www.instagram.com/iamtaraladd/
Connect with Tara on https://www.linkedin.com/in/tarajoyladd/
Sign up for the Design Mind Theory Email – See how other Brands use psychology to nail their strategies.
you're listening to Brandon butter a straight-talking occasionally in your face no BS branding podcast for modern marketers and business owners. Here for those who want to understand the influence and power of branding and how pairing associations, consumer behavior and design thinking can impact what people see, think and feel. I'm your host, tara Ladd, the sometimes funny, sometimes vulnerable and often unapologetically blunt founder and creative director of brand and design agency. Your one and only hey, hey, welcome to this week's episode of Brand and Butter. We have a guest on this week Exciting, and that's Laura Campbell, who is one of our clients from Hacker Lily.
Speaker 1:So a bit about Laura. She's the founder of Hacker Lily, obviously the parenting brand behind the award-winning Hip Surfer, which is a strap-free hip seat baby carrier designed to make carrying kids more comfortable, less painful and a whole lot more practical. She's a Gold Coast mom of two with a background in media and tech startups, and Laura created Hacker Lily after struggling to find a baby carrier that worked for her body, her lifestyle and her kids. Living with rheumatoid arthritis and juggling young children, she couldn't find anything that eased the physical strain or suited her style, so she designed her own. Since launching in 2023, laura has won multiple prestigious awards for product innovation and design, and her work has been featured on 7 News 9 News 9 Honey and KidSpot News Nine. Honey and KidSpot Hacker Lily has become a go-to for parents and health professionals alike, with Laura leading the charge in challenging the pressures of perfect parenting through practical design and real talk. So, without further ado, let me introduce you to Laura. Laura, come and say hi. Thank you so much for having me.
Speaker 1:Yeah, having you, yeah, having you on. Thank you so much for having me. Yeah, having you, yeah, having you on. It's like a special Welcome to the hot seat.
Speaker 1:I wanted to bring Laura on today because we've been working really closely together on her rebrand of Hacker Lily and I actually thought it would be such a great idea to bring her on, let her absolutely talk about her product until the cows come home, but also to talk about the process that we went on together and all of the little bits and pieces that you know came up in that process. So do you know what, laura? Why don't you start with? You know what the problem was and why you thought you needed a rebrand, and I mean how you fell across me in the first place. You know so how we ended up up, how the whole process began.
Speaker 2:I think that there was a good like 12 months or so of stalking and like leering and, you know, looking at different stories, but, um, yeah, so to take it back a step, so I'm a solo founder and I came up with my business while I was on mat leave and it really was like just doing it on minimum budget. I used my engaged, my very talented husband to help design my first logo and he did it in, you know, half an hour an hour, just like get that done, go put that, do that with your side hustle and never really knowing what it's going to turn into. So it started off in February 2023, and I had a logo and colors, but I didn't really have like a brand toolkit, so I like to go down the garden path. So this beast of a brand kept evolving and changing. It was fluoro yellows, it was black, then it went into earthy neutrals because people told me it should be that.
Speaker 2:So I think I realized, about a year in, as the business was growing, I'm like I feel like I've got the personality and character, but whatever's coming up on socials, on the website, it's like it's not got a brand, it's not got a visual aesthetic, it's a mishmash of someone who's not a designer or a like a creative in terms of creating social content. So I think, emma, I think emma lovell mentioned you once on one of our walks, lover, we did a little walk, we did a little walk, um down in labrador. She mentioned your name, I followed you and then I think that's sort of six to twelve months of like I'm a small business, I'm literally doing everything myself. Can I afford to even engage someone who can do brand strategy? And so I think I messaged you initially, didn't I actually yeah, you did.
Speaker 2:I found out the cost and I'm like, oh, I'm not ready for this yet, but really it wasn't that big and I think, yeah. So I think all the content you were creating talking about brand strategy, talking about consumer behaviour and psychology I realised for a niche product, solving a problem that lots of parents don't know they have requires a little bit more thoughtfulness. So, yeah, lots of parents don't know they have requires a little bit more thoughtfulness. So, yeah, I think I went down, I covered a few things there.
Speaker 1:Yeah, well, I think it's. It's it's kind of like the same problem with everyone and, like I always say that when you start a business, you don't really need a full cohesive brand strategy when you start, because most of the time you don't really know what it is that you need yet I think, it's kind of like I mean, have the guts of it, I think, knowing what you're in business for, the objective and all of those you know, key core drivers.
Speaker 1:But usually, like the brand, even with my own business, it's like all of those little differentiators and the reason that you exist kind of come about.
Speaker 1:You know, in in year two, year, three, as you kind of become a bit more established, there's patterns that come with your audience. You know you start to notice that there's things about you that they like and you know there's certain people that you like dealing with and there's certainly people that you do not like dealing with. And so you know, as we've discussed, it's not just a matter of trying to attract the right audience but it's also a matter of trying to repel the ones that you don't want. It's not the best way to try and appeal to everyone because you're never going to get that. But at those beginning stages I think it's really important and you already addressed this is you go through those motions of trying to do the things that everyone tells you to do, but in that process you kind of get lost a little bit and then you get overwhelmed because you're trying to do what everyone tells you to do and so, yeah, I'm glad that we ended up, you know, working together.
Speaker 1:It really is like you just said it's that knowledge gap of letting people know that they need. So it was exactly the same thing. Obviously with us is you were looking at who you needed to use, but you didn't know whether you needed that. It's kind of like do I need this? I thought I needed a visual identity, and then it turns out you kind of needed a few steps before that and it is that, um, it is that once you kind of nail it, you're kind of like, okay, all right, you kind of get back on the horse, but I think with you you've already nailed that. As well as that, one of your biggest drivers and like stand out to me straight off the bat is just your genuine, you know, tenacity and your vibrant personality, which a lot of people completely miss in that beginning stage, is that a lot of the times, the business is a founder story. It always is. It's like that's why personal brand is like blowing up at the moment is because people want that founder story, they want that connection, and I think that that's what you do really well is, and it's done in a really natural way and I was like we need to bring this in because it's not there. And I think that if there is someone that can nail this really well, it is absolutely you.
Speaker 1:So, if you're listening, what we did when Laura first got in touch was she had no idea what she needed to be fair, and so we kind of were starting with is it messaging, is it, you know? Is it the visual identity? But it kind of just we were like all right, let's just lay it down, figure out what the core objective is, how you differentiate and let's just kind of work from there. And then we really got into the mix of creating that foundation, and so it really did come down to separating. I think a lot of businesses not necessarily Laura, but a lot of businesses try and make their brand their product and it's actually not because your product should be able to move underneath the brand itself. The brand should be so strong that the product you could bring in products and retire products and the brand stays solid.
Speaker 1:But with Laura's brand at the moment, we had one product I mean, there's obviously accessories for that product, but there's a plan to extend to that and so we wanted to make sure that that brand was solid, so that anything that can kind of come in underneath that was going to be underneath the Hacker Lily umbrella, and was able to maintain that level of consistency across every product and touch point. And so, yeah, we got to work on what Laura wanted to do and what it is that she stood for. And everything came back to personality. And you know that beige mum, as we were calling it, was so not her. It just was not her, and I was like everything about you screams vibrancy, screams colour, screams personality, screams rebellion, and that was not coming through. And so, laura, why don't you tell me about that process that we went on when we were really trying to extract that?
Speaker 1:you know that personality driven content out of you and how we were going through that motion.
Speaker 2:Oh gosh. So I think that the thing the crux of this is is me having that struggle between me and my personality and how I turn up on camera and how passionate I am. But also I'm a big listener. I ask my customers lots of questions. A large portion of my customer does love their beige. They do love their premium items and those brands turn up in certain ways.
Speaker 2:So I felt like if I wanted to be taken seriously as a brand, I didn't need to look corporate.
Speaker 2:But you kind of want to subscribe to what you feel that the idea of premium is, and that's kind of like static photographs mom's looking perfect.
Speaker 2:So I think I tried doing that and it just didn't feel genuine and authentic to me. So where I felt stuck between was two ends of the spectrum, and it's not necessarily that you need to meet in the middle. But how can I actually appeal to a very, very specific mom, and that's the mom that's against perfection? So that doesn't mean you can't be premium while still being rebellious against perfection. So I think we've really hit the nail on the head with that one. I've got so much further to go in terms of storytelling about giving parents like more confidence to be them. They're raw, true, unfiltered selves. But that's a journey I need to go on, and every few days I've become more comfortable with it and I push the limits a little bit further and, and as a byproduct, invite more people into my universe who might buy into my story and then be like oh, that's really interesting about your product and your brand as well.
Speaker 1:I don't know if I answered your question then, but I think what we're looking at as well is that sometimes, when people are beige themselves, if you think about it like that they're looking for something to counteract that. It's like opposites attract as well. So sometimes, when people are looking for something or someone or you know, whatever it may be, it's to compliment who they already are.
Speaker 1:So like you know sometimes, um, like, if you look at my husband and I, for example, we are like the total opposite, like I am very loud, I'm very out there, very opinionated, and he's like the complete opposite of everything. But those two things come together so you kind of pair with the things that are opposite to you. It's the same with brand, I think that you know it's kind of like you get two alphas in a room and there'll be a problem, but you get like you know it's it really is that? So sometimes, when this is the thing, when you're looking at the consumer, the consumer can tell you what they want and what they feel, but sometimes they don't even know. It really does come down to these subconscious kind of things about you that they're drawn to. So it's like sometimes people will go, oh, I really like this brand, but I could never do that. But I really love and respect it.
Speaker 1:And it's it's. Sometimes we can listen, but we have to listen with the right headphones on, if you know what I mean.
Speaker 1:Like what is it that they're really saying here? And I think that this is where it gets really convoluted, because then you have to really understand the audience right. So you have done a really good job of marrying that up of meeting in the middle, because the product does look premium it, it does look really nice on, but then you've also got products that are really funky and cool. So you've just got that versatility both in brand messaging and in product. That is enabling you to have a broader spectrum of an audience that can tap into all of those things. And, like you said, at the end of the day they could lack really upmarket things, but if their values are all aligned, you can still you still meet in the center there.
Speaker 1:I think that that's something that people. It's a societal thing too, isn't it that we have to be this type of mother? We have to look a certain way. We can't speak badly of our kids, but you know what? Sometimes they're little rat bags and we need to let them know about it. And I think that when someone does go against the grain and and they, they just say, oh my god, this is so hard someone goes oh my god, thank you.
Speaker 1:Someone else said it you know what I mean and I think it really is just that there's so much expectation it's especially in your space there's just so much expectation and you're kind of allowing them to drop the expectation a little not necessarily the expectation, but yeah but drop those, those messages inside their head to say you know what, let's, just let's just be real here for a second, and I think that that's what people will gravitate towards, because you're setting those associations now around your product everything that you stand for, everything that you do, everything that you talk about is now going to be glorified, and they're going to think of you and think of the brand and the messages that you stand for when they see that product, and I think that that's a really strong and powerful thing that people need to be considering and that goes so far beyond a logo or any kind of visual identity.
Speaker 1:However, as we know when we're talking to these things and when we did start to discuss, you know where we were sitting and really getting into the you know, even into the language things. You know there was obviously things I put forward and Laura was like that's a bit too far. So you know, you do push the boundaries. You have to push the boundaries to see where the boundary is. We found the boundary. Now it's Laura's job to find where the boundary is with her audience, and that's fine.
Speaker 1:And I think that you have to fail Like you can't be too scared to oh no because some of the most mundane things that I've put out and I'm like I nearly did not hit post on are some of our most successful things, and I think that that's where it is. It's the intersection of fear, of, oh, what will they say, what will they do, and, and you know, sometimes you just got to go, oh, fuck it, just like post it, because yeah, it really it really does come down to that, to be who's ballsy enough to kind of do it, and I think that.
Speaker 1:I think that you've got it in you, to be honest, and I think we also add that overwhelm, don't we?
Speaker 1:There's so much overwhelm, but yeah, I mean I totally digress on that, but I guess when we're looking at the evolution and we moved from, I guess, the development of the personality and into starting to figure out you know what your brand stood for, where did you think you were like, okay, we're getting somewhere, like we're moving in the right direction I feel like it was when the words started coming together for me, like really like it was just capturing it in and the challenge I've always got with taking back, so it's how to succinctly communicate a feeling.
Speaker 2:I think that's where we started hitting on it and where I get challenged at is like with my product it's a hip seat baby exist in other parts of the world and it's quite popular in Asia, but it wasn't really known very much by the Australian target customer, and so my challenge was when I was launching, I needed to educate a lot, and so I felt like I was very heavy on information education like showing, just just probably sharing too much on the benefits without really making it super emotional and making people feel like they're part of a rebellion, part of a tribe, like come join the community and we're all about mum hacks, take the, take easy road, don't feel guilty for it. So I think when you started bringing some of that language together and we started seeing some colors coming together, that really felt like they weren't beige but it wasn't excluding people who might like neutral tones. That's when things started clicking in me. Just simplify the message and people can decide if you're their people or not it's?
Speaker 1:um, it really does. And I think that this is one thing as well right, everyone and as a designer myself, I know this well everyone will go to the designer first. They always do. They go to the designer first because they go, I need to get a logo done, and a lot of the times I'm like have you seen it? And what was the first thing I said to you? Have you spoken to a copywriter? Um, it was the first. It was actually the first thing that I said, and I think it's, it's important because the two are they. They go hand in hand. Um, and we all know that if you read a storybook, um, the pictures help to amplify the meaning of the word.
Speaker 1:It's the emphasis, it's the same, but I've just completed a campaign that will come out soon for another client and the whole thing's tech space and it's tech space because it was written in a beautiful story and then, there was no graphics needed to be there because the story was so emotionally driven and powerful on its own that it just would have detracted.
Speaker 1:So I think it's like, when we do come into that, I mean, and then obviously there's elements of both, right? So if you look at it from from a westernized standpoint, we obviously need to nail that emotional messaging, because it is the emotion that drives home. Like, if you're talking about emotionally driven messages versus educational driven messages, both needed by the both needed, then you're going to hit two different audiences in different places, right? So the emotionally driven audience may be not knowing that they need this, right. They may be in the brand awareness stage and they may not even realize that this is something that they need. And then all of a sudden, you've hit them in the feels and they're like holy shit know what I mean, and then the educational stuff is important because once they've gone past that oh my god, do I need this?
Speaker 1:then they want to know what it's about.
Speaker 1:So that that's when you're kind of taking them on the journey, and I think this is where it's really misconstrued and where marketing gets really complex. Is that, initially, you really just need three messages. It's the one that for the people that don't know you, brand awareness ones for the people that are trying to figure out whether they want to work with you or buy your product, that's trust and that's all in that consideration. And then, at the end, it's conversion, so when they buy you, know it's it's.
Speaker 1:What are the things like sales messages. It's the, it's the click here to buy. Now it's a buy one, get one free. It's all those things that they're like okay, I know about, know about you, I trust you, I value you, so when's the message coming?
Speaker 1:And then that's when the sales message hits, so it really is that, all those three things and trying to get it out there, if we've just got one lot of mess? I'm guilty of this myself, so you know what I mean. I am absolutely guilty of this myself. And when you do push those three messages out, you do target the different. You know the different. You know the different audiences. It really is a trust economy and, in your defense, we have moved in the last five years drastically from educational driven content into community building content. It it has completely shifted.
Speaker 1:So, in the process of you building your brand, consumer behavior has also shifted so drastically that you've kind of gone oh shit, we need to hook a riot and go down this way because that's where, that's where we're at now. So it, it. It's kind of like we've we kind of had that era of everyone just being online because of COVID and everyone consumed the whole internet and they learned all of these things. But now it's kind of like okay, now I've seen all these messages, who do I believe? And so now it comes down to who's building the community, who shares the same values, where do I belong? And that's kind of when, when people are using their values to align, like I've seen people like unfollow people real quick when they say something that they don't agree with, and people are very much like that these days. So it is so important to talk about those things, cause if you're not talking about it, then you're sitting on the fence and you're either missing the people that love the stuff you do or you're not talking to the people you know at all. So it's like kind of like you've got to kind of just toe the line a little bit to see, and that doesn't mean you have to go all political, like I'm not saying that there's definitely political accounts out there, but you know, in your case it's just bringing in a tribe of people that just share the same values in parenting it's.
Speaker 1:It's like a big middle finger to perfectionism, essentially, and I think that that's what's so good about it. So and then obviously we look at tying all that in into a complete detraction is that the copy helps to build that emotional message, but the visuals also help to solidify that, and visuals, on the other hand, are also universal. So if you do go overseas which we've already discussed if we do go overseas and there's a language barrier, it's the visuals that enable someone to kind of get that vibe. Oh, they look funky because of the color usage or the symbolism or the graphics that they're using, or the way something's being placed or the you know the way that something's being rounded. All of these tiny little things then come into play, so it's kind of like an attribute of the bigger picture.
Speaker 1:I think that's when we started to look at colors, wasn't it? So let's talk about that, because I think that that's when that's when it does get quite emotional, because you're right.
Speaker 1:You're right in terms, of colors are hugely emotional in the way that we, we select things so we did have a few things that we pushed forward, and we were back and forth on a few colour schemes, but we did get there in the end. But why don't you talk about your process of the actual visual identity when we were kind of like, okay, so now we know that this is what you want to do. Now we know that the visual identity isn't marrying up to what we're trying to put out, so let's shift it a little bit.
Speaker 2:So let, so, let's, let's shift it a little bit. So let's talk about how you felt in that process. Yeah, we went, we went down a few different, uh, avenues, didn't we? So I think, well, from the starting place, from the color palette that we had, it was like a beige and a brown and a yellow in there or something like that, and the yellow was like the crazy parts, like oh, let's spice up a beige.
Speaker 2:So I think I 100% knew that I needed to spice things up. I wanted something bold. Obviously it couldn't. It couldn't be too crazy. So I knew, in coming to you, I need to have a playground to play in, otherwise things can get completely out of hand we're going over that, that field over there. That's right we did start with like some pinterest mood boards, didn't we? And I think the pinterest mood boards are good, but they also like there's someone else's thinking right like yeah, yeah that's right.
Speaker 2:And then, even creating a mood board, someone can take different commonalities from that than what you may be intending from that. Because the first round of colors obvious that you came back with I was like, how did you read that? How did you read that from the mood board? I'm like, oh, that's so interesting, what you've taken from what I've curated, what we've talked about. Like there was kind of like a grass green, uh, like a lawn green in there, almost wasn't there. So but I almost feel like you need to stretch it really far. I almost feel like you've probably done that intentionally and I was like a knee-jerk reaction. I'm like, oh, my god, how do I break it to her? Like what the?
Speaker 1:well? No, because it's also like the process of knowing what you don't like as well yeah, it's not just what you love, it's what you don't like. Sorry, continue, as I interjected rudely no.
Speaker 2:so I actually think that was really good. And then I'm like, okay, I want to take things back. Let's just look at like two or three colours that I feel like really do capture me. And when you did come back with the second round, I knew I wanted to have some sort of like purple and red in there. And I was crushing on purple and red and I could just see your eyebrows.
Speaker 1:You're wearing it now, by the way. Pardon, you've got purple earrings and red earrings, I know. It's your vibe, yeah.
Speaker 2:It is part of my vibe and I almost loved I could see that when I was saying that to you like challenge, that's a fad that's going to be over soon, kind of thing. So many brands, especially in the parenting space, love doing that. So I love how I shared my vision with you and you took that to another level where it can be bridged between being premium, characterful, a little bit spicy, but also have room for expanding on it as well and not being locked into a very specific persona.
Speaker 2:So, yeah, what you've done is like sort of stretch my thinking, but keep it controlled at the same time, so that the customers want consistency, I guess, at the end of the day, so they know who the brand is yeah, and I think that we, with the elements, the, you know, the playful elements that we ended up creating with.
Speaker 1:That is so. If you haven't seen Laura's brand, I've created a bunch of hand-drawn graphics. They're deliberately sketchy, they're deliberately messy and they're intentionally aligned to the brand, but they've also been designed in a way. So if laura wants to whack up a graphic, it looks so on brand because it's meant to look like a sketch in a you know, just something you've written on a on a piece of paper in front of you. It's meant to be like that and it's um, it's a. The point of difference is that you can have something look really professional and premium and you just pull these elements out and keep just the text and you can have just the neutral text that we have, the neutral palette, color palette that we've used, and you could create something really simplistic. You know white background, black text, you know red, you know CTA at the bottom and you've still got that upmarket vibe Right. But if you, you know, add all the colors in, and you've still got that upmarket vibe right. But if you, you know, add all the colors in, it can completely change that mood. So when we talk about tone of voice and you know if you're going.
Speaker 1:I use this as an example all the time. If you're speaking on LinkedIn, you're going to have a different tone, as if you were to go and talk on Instagram, for instance. Or if you walk into a room full of marketing execs or you know business execs, you're going to talk differently, as if you were to go into a backyard barbecue with your own mates, and your tone changes based on the room that you're in. And that's a really important thing to consider, because design is also the same. You can change the visuals to align to the audience that you're trying to attract at that time.
Speaker 1:And so if you've got something that is, you know, more professionally, more polished, you need to put this in a certain place. You can easily strip it back, keep it on brand, but just make it a little bit more minimalist and a little bit more accommodating or versatile, depending on where you put it, versus if you were to go and, you know, use all the colors if you wanted something really big and out there and you wanted your attention. So it really just is about the objective, understanding the guidelines and going. Okay, this is where we're going with this.
Speaker 1:Let's use this color pairing because it will be better suited to this environment, and it might be that you use a graphic, or it might be that you use an image that's really fun and out there, in which case, if you get a really fun um, you know image that we were, you know, talking about the shoots and how, we were going to do those, and if we do something that's really fun and out there, then you want to pull the rest of it back because you want that hero to now be the image.
Speaker 1:The image controls the personality, the image controls the direction and the. You know all of the fun. So you don't want to then have all of these extra things as well as the graphic, because then it's too much so it's like this fine balance of understanding design at play. What's the focal point? What are we looking at? What's the hero here? And then making sure that everything else around it is painting the bigger picture all of the assets create the story.
Speaker 1:I think you've been doing a really good job of it, so it's um, it really is just about you know, knowing the placement and how to use it. So, coming back to what Laura said about the colors being very on trend, they are very on trend, but one of the biggest things that we came that I'm very big on is inclusivity, and we needed to make sure that we had the right tonal value for contrast and being able to see those two colors across the board for everyone. You know whatever eyesight that they are, and so we were trying to marry up the right red that matches with the right purple, so that we could get the right consistency. And so, with that came, you know, it did come with guidelines on what you can, you know, can and can't do.
Speaker 2:I'm going to stretch those a little bit I bet, you have I bet you have.
Speaker 1:But the important rule is that we're not putting any important rules at times. So yeah, she will come into some some. You know some push boundaries there. But um, I guess let's talk about when you decided to roll it out, laura, how you felt about that. You know, when you got the finals of it, seeing it all together, like, how did it make you feel all of that type of stuff?
Speaker 2:uh, honestly, it was so good and, look, we stretched this out over a little bit longer, didn't we? Because we actually started talking in november last year. We're like, do you know what I'm? A smaller budget, like let's, let's make it work. And so, taking that time to breathe on it, sit with it, go on the journey, finally seeing it all come together. And the whole purpose for kind of engaging in the first place was because I had some retail partnerships, I had some big expansion plans and knowing that my little side hustle one woman, wolf pack business could actually share some creative guidelines, could actually share a brand strategy that is equivalent to that of, like you know, a multi-million dollar brand, because it does, it feels that way. So I honestly felt so proud of myself for deciding to spend the money to up, level my business and be able to be taken seriously by big retailers, and the feedback from customers was incredible, honestly, really cool. So even I was.
Speaker 2:I was at an ex at the pbc, which is a baby expo in brisbane on the weekend and my whole goal for the brand was right, like it's a hip seat, baby carrying bum bag. It's random, it's niche. There's a massive, big, like 10, like 20 billion dollar baby wearing industry out there and so many of them are focused on. It's about nurturing, it's about about bonding, it's about love and I just knew that I want to promote bonding. I want to have freaking amazing connection between, like parent and child. I want freedom, I want them to be able to go with the flow and I feel like we captured that. So when I was at the expo the other day, they came up there's like purple, there's green, there's there's a, there's like a little kid, a baby that's got like the um, the crown on it, the mum's got wings. They're like I want to be part of that.
Speaker 2:I feel like I love your mission, like people want to be part of it, not just something that's, you know, promoting a loving embrace, promoting a lifestyle. So I feel like what I was doing as a business owner was minimizing what I was doing and how I could appear in the world. So what are you talking about? A rebellion against beige, a rebellion against perfection. I'm just one person. How do I do it? But using that language and saying it repetitively across multiple channels, you start believing it. Other people are believing it. They want to join the mission. So you're creating the momentum to sort of change consumer psychology but really build community. So so yeah, I feel like it's evolving but I feel really proud of I feel both proud for both of us making it happen that's such awesome.
Speaker 1:That's such awesome feedback, I think, because it really is, and I think we spoke about this last week when we had our chat anyway. But it is that brand equity, right, you launch and a lot of people like, oh well, I didn't get the. I didn't get that response that I thought that I wanted to get and it's like okay. So not everyone gets that response right. And I say okay to people you need to sit with this, because sometimes people just get a bit of a jarring and it depends on what. It is right.
Speaker 1:If you're going out and you're challenging a convention, people are going to oh, I need to just wrap my head around this of what you're saying for a second, because now I have to kind of get out of my normal way of thinking and kind of rethink in a different way. Who gives a crap? Did this with toilet paper? You know, when they came out, everyone was like what's going on? Who calls toilet paper? Who gives a crap?
Speaker 1:Like there was just so many things that they challenged in that space that people were just like I mean, it's cool, it's like, but in the individual toilet paper, like what's going on here? Like it was just such a different. Do you know what I mean? Such a different thing that people then have to kind of unlearn and relearn and I think that's the thing when you launch or you go out is that you're actually then re-educating your audience again. We're not we're not just expecting them to be there. They're being met with so many different things every single day, and then all of a sudden, what they're used to seeing from you, they're now like, oh, it looks different, and so now it's your job again. Which why it gets hard is to now then re-educate them. This is what we look like now, this is what we sound like now, this is what we believe in, and then that's when consistency matters so that's when you hear people go.
Speaker 1:Consistency is key. It honestly is. It's basically mere exposure effect, which is like you you see it and then you become familiar with it and then you start to like it. It's like listening to a song for the first time versus the fifth time um and so it really is.
Speaker 1:That's when it it works. So consistency works really damn well. When you have the strategy and the tactics, they're ready to go. But if you're just posting consistently and there's no strategy, it's like what is the goal here? Because people know who you are and then what happens is it's almost like a bigger job later, because then you've kind of grown and then you've got all these different like gaps to plug back in again and it's kind of like oh, now I've got to now re-educate for a bigger audience. So I always say it's really good, which is what you said before.
Speaker 1:Um, and one of my reasons for leaving corporate to come was to work with small to medium enterprises to give them the knowledge of what I used to provide. You know massive agencies with these huge big branding guidelines, documents, but give them to smaller agencies because if they get that shit down pat from day one, you know what I mean. Like their ability to take on those big conglomerates is much better, because they know what they're here for, what they're doing, what they're aligned for, who their audience is and they just go hard on it and you have more versatility to be a bit to take a bit more risks.
Speaker 1:Take a few more risks, I should say, because you know, know there's not as much on the line. There is, but there's not. Do you know what I mean? When you get so big and you've got this huge reputation to uphold, like anything can go wrong, whereas when you're smaller, you can be a little bit like nimble and and shift a little bit and do some some shifty things there that can, um, that can get some exposure and it's and you can test it and I think that you're in a really fun time.
Speaker 1:now You've got the strategy and the tactics and you're in that storytelling aspect and try different ways of doing things, because you've got that there. Right Now it's execution Like do they like this? Maybe try this. And that's where I think it's actually really fun. You're in the fun phase.
Speaker 2:It's interesting to see how, because I've got a virtual assistant, a marketing virtual assistant, who helps me the socials, and every now and then I feel like, oh, she's stretched that too far, oh, let's not post. And I'm like do you know what? Let's just do it. Like something felt like the color combination was wrong, but I feel like let's just do it. Let's regroup in a few weeks and say, actually, do we want more of that? Do Do we want to dial it up? Was it just something a little bit spicy that mixed things up a little bit. So I'm trying to allow other people to have freedom with it, because whilst I am the face of the brand I am a part of the brand I feel like I don't have the perspectives of other people outside the brand we might as well.
Speaker 2:Give that a go as well. So, yeah, I'm excited to see I've shared the brand guidelines with, like some other agencies, so like in google, um and amazon, so it feels good. It feels good that they're contained. Like, as a small business owner, I feel like I can scale into different markets because I've got the foundations there now and I think that's what I was worried about to start with. Like, oh my god, my shopify website. They say I've got different colored fonts and colors and images and styles. Like, if you want to duplicate that and copy that to other markets, you need to have some strong foundations or it's just going to be duplicating a hot mess. Yeah. But also, they buy into your mission too. Right, they buy into your mission about what it is that you stand for, like if you go to someone.
Speaker 1:you go, I've got a cool product and you know, here's some visual guidelines. They're like, oh cool. But if you go, this is what I'm doing, this is the intention. They can see the future.
Speaker 1:They can see the objective of what it is that you're trying to achieve, like a visual identity is good, because we need that for consistency, but what we've built now is that brand strategy. So now you're able to go okay, if you go into someone or you're pitching to someone or you want to be, you know, in a stockist like this is what our intentions are for a brand and they're not buying that product.
Speaker 1:They're buying everything that you stand for as a business. They're buying your community. They're buying you as a founder. They're buying everything that you're you're thinking about and you're trying to change. And because that's a reflection on their brand, they put someone like that in their store. That's a positive or a negative. It depends on their brand and that's actually how they choose. It's an association piece.
Speaker 2:There's been some interesting conversations I've had, so I recently did a trip to the Middle East, to the UAE, for a baby show. Like doing research was like the first goal. Let's just go. I've got a Gold Coast grant that I could use to like cover some of the costs, so let's see what happens.
Speaker 2:And it looks like it really has evolved in a distributor partnership. When I was discussing this, we kind of moved to like letter from tent stage. But when I was discussing this they were like okay, I've took along a deck which is like my wholesale distributor deck and I've got all of our branding through there now and they're like we think that your price point's great, we can see the quality of the product is just next level and they're like your branding. That's interesting. Tell us, tell us about that. Because when you're thinking about the UAE, you're thinking about like, fast cars, you're thinking about lots of wealth and I invited this conversation where they've got a lot of people because they drive everywhere.
Speaker 2:Not a lot of people actually baby wear it's a very low baby wearing country, but they all have these like uh, four-wheel drive, like prams and things like that. It's quite interesting. They got real luxury prams. They're like we could see how this could pair possibly with another one of our products. But would your branding actually match? I'm like 100. It was get the most beautiful premium luxury stroller in the market and if you've got your backup plan right here for those cheeky shortcuts, little moments. So it's actually like pairing character with something serious, with something that's going to take a load off, that's going to be lighter, that's going to be more fun and more free, and they actually really bought into that story love that product and the brand.
Speaker 1:So yeah, it was really cool, and so you've added that narrative now, right, yeah, it seems like I have now hot on the spot, yeah. But like that's, it's interesting because then that's and that to me is a massive successful box ticker because, the minute that they go your branding and it becomes a talking point. That's awesome because it means that it's sparked some intrigue and some curiosity which means that it stands out from everything else that they've seen. If it hadn't, they wouldn't have asked the question.
Speaker 2:So it's yeah it's.
Speaker 1:I think that that's a really big compliment for you. It's something that means that you would, you will be remembered, and that was one thing that we did want to try and do. And obviously there's lots of things I remember reading. I don't even know how James deals with it. Oh, that's something that we can talk about in a second.
Speaker 2:I don't know if James I think you want to mention. No, no, we definitely do want to mention.
Speaker 1:So I will bring that up because I think it's really important. So James is Laura's husband and he's an incredible logo designer. Now he focuses just on the logo element and as we were developing out the brand, I was doing the strategy and I did a couple of logo concepts that you know Laura wasn't really loving or vibing with, and so James suggested that he take the logo and I was like go for it. So we had a budget and we were working within that budget. So that meant that I was able to remove the logo from that budget, focus more on the areas that I was really good at and then outsource out the logo to James, to Laura's husband, so that he could then build out that logo. So then all three of us then got together to discuss the future of the logo and how we thought that that could work.
Speaker 1:So, because Laura and I had already developed a lot of that. You know the brand foundations and the strategy. You know the brand foundations and the strategy. It enabled us to brief James in with a really clear, um, you know direction on what we wanted to do with that poor James, um. So then he came back to us with a logo concept and he and Laura was like I want to know what you think, and I'm like I want to know what you think because I'm not saying anything, um, and then Laura, said how about I share what my response is.
Speaker 1:Yeah, you should definitely share it, yeah.
Speaker 2:So, because the process he had was like tell me five words that really that you feel captures the brand. And he's got a really great process. It just keeps founders laser focused on what he's really good at iconography and things like that. So with what he came back with, I felt it was very masculine, it was very rigid, it felt quite corporate. It could be almost like providing antivirus software, sponsoring a football team or something like that. And he's like I kind of thought you'd think that he's like, but I'm really struggling.
Speaker 2:We wanted to bring to life, like we wanted to bring to life, the sun, the source of the hip surfer, like you know, wings, like there was actually five really random things coming together. You'd have to be, like, you know, just a genius to make them work. Anyway, I was quite upfront with him to begin with and I found playing around with it in Canva I feel like that's just made him feel sick that I was tinkering with his logo in Canva. But we did a few things, didn't we? We were actually, like you know, spinning it around Rounded corners, rounding the corners, giving it a little bit more. I think we did thin, I can't remember. We gave it a bit more spacing.
Speaker 1:We added spacing. It wasn't so we took two of the pieces out.
Speaker 2:They took two of the pieces out, was it? I was like removing them by like doing little block, like transparent things on canva, and I'm like, oh my gosh, this looks amazing, like it actually looks. Kind of looks like a cat now, like, but you can see the wings. It felt fierce, it felt alternative and just removing those small little things. It's amazing how it's gone from being an anti-virus software to an anti-beige brand, like fucking rebellion and you know what he was so good about.
Speaker 1:And then he came back with something just like really well done, like we both were like, yeah, that's totally it and it was um, and it was good because and I think James is really used to that logo design process, whereas I'm used to a visual identity process, so that's like end-to-end brand strategy, moving through right through to the end. So when I'm looking at something, I'm looking at all of the pieces as like a huge big puzzle, and when James is looking at it, he's more narrowed in on one specific area. So it was really interesting to see those two different concepts, because I'm like I will make your logo work wherever I just need to like. I just need you to do it right so that it can work and it's like you can't just retrofit the logo.
Speaker 1:I'm like, yes, you can, like, this is what we're doing. And it worked really well because, obviously and he also was a very literal thinker, whereas I'm a big like audacious out there which Laura and I are very much the same type of mind, but we're also women as well. So we're also women, we're also parents. Well, all of us are parents, but, like you know, we're also mothers. So we kind of had that emotional connection to what we were talking about as well. So it really was that firsthand experience of what was I looking for, what was I feeling.
Speaker 2:How was it?
Speaker 1:And so it kind of really did add that peppering of, I guess, emotions anyway.
Speaker 2:But we're all willing, like we all kind of, and there were a few things he was like I think we wanted to spin it around upside down. He's like you can remove the parts, but you're not spinning it around the other way. It looks like this. So actually, like it was almost the beautiful process where things went too far, one way came back, he put the brakes on. He's like don't you dare? Yeah, we're not turning it upside down.
Speaker 2:We're like it's cool it worked out all the better actually, because everyone's sort of like compromised but like put their foot down.
Speaker 1:That's and I think what was really good about it was that the typography that I had already chosen for the language and the fonts um he ended up using in the logo itself and I thought and it actually completely changed the dynamic of the logo and the shape and the, the, the heaviness of it kind of was reduced, it became a little bit more narrow and a little bit more spaced out and it just really and actually I actually really like it. You know, I remember, like when you see something and then and then, and then you look at it again, and then you look at it again and you're like you know what this is, this is a vibe.
Speaker 2:I think it's good, isn't it? And that was like we wanted to make a nuance, like a little focal point, like how can we take that hate which is like it's about hacking parenthood? It's hackalily, like there's some, it's the hip surfer, there's some sort of thing in the h that it doesn't need to have some fandangle like things sitting in the middle of the top of it. It's just the tiny little bridge and it makes it unique, doesn't it?
Speaker 1:It's so small, but it's so, actually, that's something that Laura and I were talking about was we. The original idea that I had was still a good idea that carried through and that was like the intersection of two identities. And then Laura was talking about the bridge and you know all of these things about creating that. You creating that, you know movement, and and it was that big thinking that kind of transitioned in. So we talk about messy processes. I'm a big, I am such a fan of a messy process. Yeah, I am not end to end. I think that all of the best ideas come from a mistake most of the time. Um, because and I'm not well, it's not really a mistake, it's a planned, it's planned chaos in my. It's a planned, it's planned chaos. In my opinion, that's the creative process, because if you don't go down these things and try new things and screw up different lines and you know, you miss these real, like blossoming areas.
Speaker 2:And people leaning into it.
Speaker 1:A hundred percent and this is why I say to people like and like, like we said we started in November, we finished in what was it May? And like we said we started in.
Speaker 2:November. We finished in what was it? May, march, whatever it was, and you know what?
Speaker 1:It was worth it, because if we'd have finished at the beginning, we wouldn't have got to where we needed to be. And I think that this is what I try and say to people is they always come to the design or they come to do the branding at the end and they're like we've got three months to roll this out. And I're like we've got three months to roll this out and I'm like, well, you've given yourself no time, Like if you were in an agency, like they're like 12, 18, 24 months to do a rebrand.
Speaker 1:Like that stuff goes ages, like people would die if they knew how long. I think they're just like check on a new, new coat of paint, you're done. I'm like nope, no, that's not it. So, yeah, it really.
Speaker 1:So my problem is to try and get people to understand that there's like let it have that time, because you will create something amazing, and you have created something amazing and you know what that was also the collaboration of three different minds, three different angles, three different creatives.
Speaker 1:And I think that you know, I, I, I strongly dislike people that don't take into consideration the founder, the founder's opinion or the founder's perspective, because even if they're not a designer or they're not a creative, they've still created this thing and they still have a wealth of knowledge about what it is that they're doing. Um, and a lot of the times, the, the best things are said in passing that people completely miss. So I like to really take that whole process, but I think that, yeah, I, I just love that it's now rolling out. And now you know what, laura, why don't you give your product an actual plug like why don't we talk about what we're doing, where you're going with it, how you're trying, what you plan to do with it, what it does, all those things oh, my word, I'm glad we talked about like the fun and interesting stuff up front.
Speaker 2:But I mean, yeah, as I mentioned, it's the, it's a, it's a baby carrier and a bum bag in one. So it's it's a unique thing in that. Um, when I first launched, only five percent of people had heard of a hip seat baby carrier to start with, so it's still very new to the market. But I've launched now like seven or eight colors. It's all about reducing the strain on the shoulders. It's about giving parents freedom to have baby laying down, breastfeeding, rocking to sleep, facing in for cuddles or facing out when you want to go to a theme park or you're going out on the weekend. So it really is like one of the most versatile baby transport devices you can get that you can literally use from birth right through to toddlerhood. So, yeah, it comes in like corduroy. We've got beautiful vegan leather and the latest like pink and red one.
Speaker 1:I'm just freaking loving it is I really like the green one as well, I thought that you know I was like she's fired that one.
Speaker 2:Yeah, the green and tan one is like it's actually more popular than the black. It was more popular than the black at the baby show, but online people are loving the red and the pink. It's gotten into a few small biz communities. So what I'm excited about is it's gone from being a functional product that solves a problem to actually now becoming like a station.
Speaker 1:It's an accessory yes, yes.
Speaker 2:So one of the mums said to me I've got a photo shoot, I've got a small business business. I want to have my baby in it so you can do business and you can have a baby. And I'm all about pink and I want the hip surf. I'm like you take the hip surf and you show those moms they can like be free, be empowered, go with the flow and just like tackle mom life with like total chaos. So so yeah, it's an evolving beast, from being a product to the lifestyle and the mindset that I wanted to achieve from being with you, and it's all stitching.
Speaker 1:I love that and what I really I'm like my kids are too old for it now, but I mean you know spewing, but what I really love about it, it really is like a fashion piece and I think that when you become a mum like you don't want to lose, there's such an identity shift right Like into who you become and there's so many different things. Like you can't now take your beautiful designer handbag out If you had one of those I never had one of those, but like I have. I, like you know, had really funky kind of stuff. You can't take that stuff anymore because you've got to carry a bloody baby bag and you've got all these other things that you need to carry around.
Speaker 1:So it kind of almost brings back that agency of choice, of being, of allowing them to kind of feel fashionable in a time when it's otherwise taken away, those other things that do you know what I mean like um it gives them their the ability to kind of step back into the ownership, of chuck some lippy on and put on your your cool hip surfer that's like that matches your shoes and your pants or whatever.
Speaker 2:And feel like they have an element of fashion. Yeah, that's where they're like this world first. Whilst the hip seat's been around for 30 years, it's like a lumbar store. It's like a medical contraption. I invented these washable covers, so literally most families will only have like one baby carrier and if you get leopard print or you get gingham or you get black, you're stuck with that. So what's really resonating now is these washable covers where you can get your animal print, you can get your gingham, you can get your floral, you can get your beige if you like. So, yeah, I'm thinking as like a strategy for the brand, leaning into that more and hopefully doing like artist collabs any artists listening in, let me know, because I want to do. Actually, the next evolution is doing higher level partnerships with fashion brands, with artists, and having that finally might make that more possible.
Speaker 1:So and I think that that's totally it. Like you know, you've got, you've got the core. Now you just can create accessories that go with it yeah, yeah, and you know what.
Speaker 2:You touch your handbag down here, I can show you afterwards.
Speaker 1:I think this is what's really important about um laura's product as well is that it's it's backed by a physiotherapist and doctors. Is that what you're saying?
Speaker 1:I think that this is important, right? You? You see these things online and everyone I for one was one of those mums that was like, okay, what has the highest safety rating? You know which which kind of one has. I don't care how much money I have to spend. You know, I don't want my kid in the wrong car seat, blah, blah, blah. And I think that there are definitely parents out there like that. So when it comes to looking for baby things, they're looking at your baby Bjorns and all those you know bigger brands, because they do have that credibility and that brand rep. But I think that one thing with Laura's stuff is she's got all these, all this street cred from, from these professionals in the space that are talking about how good it is for your back. So I cannot tell you how many times I threw my back out trying to pick my kids up from their cots.
Speaker 1:You know they're like all the way down to the bottom and they don't allow you to drop the side anymore, you know, and things like that. And it's just that, having the ability to like have them there without picking them up and lugging them, and even that slightest movement, like you know, you throw your back out and like how did you do that? It's like it wasn't even a good injury. It's not like I hurt myself at sport. I like bent over to pick up something off the floor and it's just such a good thing to be able to, you know, prevent that, because when you are in that space and you're a bit foggy as a mom, you know, an injury on top of that is not good either.
Speaker 1:So like having that backing pun intended to, you know, with the product, I think is really, really good.
Speaker 2:Do you know? What's quite interesting about that is when I first launched, lots of people said to me like they're, like you're launching, why wouldn't you have straps going over your shoulder? Why would you want something? So it's quite interesting. Like with a one-off product, you get new entrants into the market like every three months, but they'll have their aha moment at different times. So I have had some trolls and they're like this is the dumbest product ever. Why would you want something that sticks out of your body and that doesn't even hold your baby? And then one woman came back to me five months later I'm so sorry. I get it, I've got a chunk and I just need it a little bit longer.
Speaker 2:So it was so funny. This like conversation thread. I've got to turn it into a piece of content. She's like I'm in, I got it like yes. So it's interesting like having the top of funnel, the middle of funnel and the bottom of funnel and how you talk to them all. It's like you come in in your own time when you're like done with complicated straps and your back's killing and you've been changing nappies and you've been breastfeeding and your shoulders want to rip off Like you'll, you'll succumb.
Speaker 1:It really is that mother moment, isn't it? It's like you know, you'll figure it out, like you know just come to me when you're ready, I'll be over here.
Speaker 2:No judgment, I won't do that I love that.
Speaker 1:So what's the big plans next, laura? Like, what are you planning to do with Hacker Lily? Where do you want it to be? Where do you want it to?
Speaker 2:go. So I have got like I have got big goals but I've also got you know, everyone's got cash flow and things like that, so right now I'm in the situation of planning that out, but there's a. There's four key ways that I'm looking at growing at the moment. One is internationally, so hopefully I can announce some things then and I'm so glad I've got the brand guidelines. I've got the branding ready for people to take up, take duplicate and not ruin it or take much creative freedom like they possibly could. I've got some retail store announcements literally happening, possibly in the next 24 hours. So Hackley is imminently popping up in nine airport locations across Australia. There's already branding up, so if you're going travelling, you'll see it. Theme park partnerships happening. It just feels like it's interesting how it's all coming together now. I'm so glad I had the foresight for the branding and my head's about to explode. I think that's more than enough to have on your plate, apart from world domination.
Speaker 1:So yeah, well, now at least you know that when you enter those places, you know what you need to say, you know who you're trying to target you know what the message is and I think that that's probably the most important thing is because people then go and push their brand out across multiple touch points with different messaging or the wrong messaging, and then all of a sudden it's not hitting the way that they want. When we know now, like at least from the very core, you're like this is what we stand for, this is what we're about, and you can do little things and upgrade as you want, but yeah, there's like lots of really fun opportunities for you.
Speaker 2:I'm really excited, thank you and just to add to that, actually like obviously the things, that was, international, new marketing channels, but also evolving the product. And what we really honed in on is how can you solve problems for people? How can I, like, help people with babies zero to three but then start evolving and building that upwards but keep it all underneath that hacklelly sort of ethos?
Speaker 1:so so something like this coming out really soon too. I can't wait to share that, but yeah, there is everyone.
Speaker 1:That's amazing what she just posted, then I think there's also one thing that you know a lot of people need to realize is that their brand doesn't just stop after launch. Brand is like continuous right. So now laura's going to push out messages. She's probably going to find that some some messages resonate better than others. Then you fix that. You like use that as a primary um.
Speaker 1:You know the conversations that you lead, which is brand narrative, by the way, which is a consistent. It's the breaking it down. Brand story is the original kind of story that you have. It evolves obviously as you grow. But more the narrative is the conversations that you lead as a brand. So you know you may find that something when we're now talking about ai right, for instance, that that didn't exist five years ago. That's just a new conversation. Now you've added that to the narrative.
Speaker 1:So you do find that with tech changes or you know societal changes, that you do have new conversations that enter. So you just need to know that if you're a brand, that you adapt that conversation to align with whatever's happening in the market. But yeah, it is, that's all brand, that's all messaging visuals as well, like if you know that, for instance, we were talking about Laura being able to adapt and evolve her asset library and I think that's important as well, because you want to have a dynamic identity. These days, we don't really want things to stay static because things are moving so quickly. You want things to be moving. You know video now needs to be included in your visual identity. The way you cut videos, the way you edit them, you know, are you like fast and snappy and personality driven? Are you slow, like? All of these things are important that you need to add in and you know, as you evolve um, the brand, you will find that everything will need to evolve with it.
Speaker 1:If laura becomes now a multinational conglomerate which you know she might be well and on her way, she will need to then update her brand as well, because she will need to look at how that appeals across a magnitude of things you know. So we're talking about um.
Speaker 2:You know if she goes into retail places.
Speaker 1:That of things you know. So we're talking about. You know, if she goes into retail places that have expos or you know long winded like execution, she'll need like large format digital print templates and all of these like huge, big end frames. That she may need yeah future problems, which are great to have. But you've at least got that guideline there now, so you can go okay, this is what it is.
Speaker 1:How can we evolve this now into step three, four, five? Do you know what I mean? So it is really an evolving thing, but a good place to be, because you've already got those foundations.
Speaker 2:I'm excited, love it. Honestly, it was like a great journey, an amazing experience, and I think we got just the right balance of let's really stretch this as far as we can and you sort of like reading the room at the same time uh, draw the hard line there, but it was. It was a really good, wasn't it? It's a relationship. It's a tug and pull, but we're both trying to go in the same direction.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and exactly that's right it's. It's about having the conversation like I'm not someone. That's just going to be like, yes, yes, that's great, you launch, you hate it. Like it's my job to say I, I love what you're doing, but have we thought about? And then that's, and that's the importance of it right like and obviously that's what we need to look at and that's collaboration.
Speaker 1:It really is, it's, it's not something you can't just go and work with someone and expect them to take it end to end. The people, the decision makers, need to be involved in the process and make it fun. But, okay, so for everyone sitting at home that's listening right now Laura, tell them where they can find you, please.
Speaker 2:Hello. You can come and find me at Instagram underscore Hacker Lily. So H-A-C-K-E-R-L-I-L-Y Hacker Lily actually interesting fact stands for Hacking Parenthood with like style, kind of things. That's how the two words came together. You can come say hi to Laura at hackerlilycom. I've got an open inbox. I'm always so happy to chat to other amazing small business owners, share chat, chat, catch up and linkedin. I am a linkedin hussy and I love sharing my journey over there. I love chatting with people in the dms over there. I you know. Come and say hi and um, yeah, I'm an open book amazing.
Speaker 1:Okay, thanks for the chat, laura. Thank you for having me. No worries, guys, and we will chat to you all next week. Did you like that episode? I hope so, because if you did, why don't you head over to whatever platform you listen on and rate and review? It's much appreciated and helps others know what we're about. If you want to follow us, you can find us at your one and only underscore au on instagram.
