Brand and Butter
Always straight-talking (occasionally in-your-face), Brand and Butter is the no-BS branding podcast for modern marketers and business owners. Packed with clear-cut advice on the influence and power of branding - and how pairing associations, consumer behaviour, and design thinking can impact how we see, think, feel, and even taste.
Brand and Butter serves up refreshingly honest and never-dull conversations with some of today’s boldest brand strategists and architects. Sometimes funny, sometimes vulnerable (and often unapologetically blunt), this is the podcast that you wish you’d listened to before launch.
Tara Ladd is the Founder and Brand Strategist at Your One and Only, a brand and design studio here for brands who refuse to settle. Evolving brand identities to stay relevant fusing psychology, strategy, and design.
Brand and Butter
Nailing Confidence, Impact, and Connection in Speaking with Shelly Horton
What if nailing your voice could change both your professional and personal life? Well, in this episode I'm speaking with Shelly Horton, a trailblazing TV journalist, MC, and advocate for women's health. She shares her journey through a 30-year career across major networks like ABC, Channel 7, and Channel 9. She throws down actionable tips on voice control, breathing techniques, and pacing, which are essential whether you deliver a TED Talk or engage an audience on your Instagram stories.
And, don't forget to check out her Speak With Impact Workshops where she is dedicated to empowering individuals with speaker and media training.
Check out the video we reference in the episode by Will Stephen: 'How to sound smart in your TEDx Talk' here.
Follow Shelly:
Website: shellshockedmedia.com
Instagram: @shellyhorton1
Linkedin: @shellyhorton1
Visit https://youroneandonly.com.au/
Follow YO&O on IG https://www.instagram.com/youroneandonly_au/
Follow Tara on IG https://www.instagram.com/iamtaraladd/
Connect with Tara on https://www.linkedin.com/in/tarajoyladd/
Sign up for the Design Mind Theory Email – See how other Brands use psychology to nail their strategies.
We have a great guest on the show today and her name is Shelley Horton and she is the personification of confidence. She's a TV journalist, sought-after emcee women's health advocate and runs her own company, shell Shocked Media, where she teaches speaker and media training, and she runs Speak with Impact workshops speaker and media training. And she runs Speak with Impact workshops. Her 30-year career encompasses significant roles, including 11 years at the ABC, eight years at Channel 7, six years with Fairfax and five years for ET America. In her current nine-year tenure at Channel 9, shelley has been a weekly feature on Today and Today Extra. She's a women's health advocate speaking up and campaigning in Parliament to destigmatise taboo topics like menopause, choosing to be child-free, bladder leakage, heavy periods and perimenopausal depression all very important subjects. So stick around, because today is going to be great.
Speaker 1:You're listening to Brandon Butter, a straight, straight-talking, occasionally in-your-face, no-bs branding podcast for modern marketers and business owners. Here for those who want to understand the influence and power of branding and how pairing associations, consumer behavior and design thinking can impact what people see, think and feel. I'm your host, tara Ladd, the sometimes funny, sometimes vulnerable and often unapologetically blunt founder and creative director of brand and design agency, your One and Only. Hi everyone, welcome to this week's episode. I have someone that is amazing here with us today. She is a gun at what she does. She's a presenter and she teaches people how to present really well, and I'm going to let her tell you, because she's going to be way better than me anyway, because it's her job. So over to you, shel.
Speaker 2:Oh, tara, I love you so much. Thank you so much for having me on. I have been waiting for a while, just FYI, super excited, we tried.
Speaker 2:I know we had a couple of things fell over. Well, you know, we just got to roll with it. Yeah, so I have been a journalist for 30 years and let me tell you, working in the media you learn to bounce back quite quickly. You learn to deal with the knives in the middle of your back, but you also learn a lot of tips and tricks on how to present well. And so I'm still working as a journalist with Channel 9 on Today Extra, but I also have my own company called Shellshocked Media. And for 30 years working as a journalist, I've always done media training as a bit of a side hustle and then in the last 10 years, been doing more of it. And then you know how sometimes you're like I've got to get out of my own way. I had this realization media training is for people who are going to be on TV to promote their business. That's probably 1% of the population.
Speaker 2:So, I get this boom of what about if I actually bring it down and create workshops that help people just promote their business, speak up in meetings how to ask for that pay increase, or, and the thing that I love the most is helping women promote their business so that they're feeling confident talking to clients, feeling confident talking if they're having to do a bit of a sales pitch or if they're just on social media. So yeah, I created these Speak With Impact workshops in May this year, which feels like forever ago, I remember when you started that.
Speaker 1:I'm so glad how good it's going. Yeah, it was so good.
Speaker 2:And, oh my God, they've gone gangbusters. So I have basically just been selling out, selling out, selling out, and it's just made me so excited and just opened my eyes that you know what speaking well and speaking with impact is something that you do in everyday life and it's you come and learn with me. And there's it's not just for a tv position, it's for everything. So, yeah, it's been great. And then I've also just loved because I do group workshops where people may not know each other there's this little tribe that's good and unity.
Speaker 2:Yeah, it's really nice because most people who turn up are very upfront and saying that they are shit scared, like they are just shitting bricks, and if they meet other people doing the workshop who are also scared, we have a little bit of trauma bonding going on and then I help them. They then support each other and by the end of it, everyone's like hugging and staying in contact and wanting to promote each other's business and it's just bloody nice.
Speaker 1:Yeah, it's um, it's so important, I think and, like you, talk about people being on TV. Essentially our phones are our TVs now right, like our little boxes every day. So you know it's getting on Instagram or whatever and to record a video, and it's so important in terms of brand presence we know this now that we just have to have that face-to-face interaction or even on a zoom call know what I mean like so eye contact and where you look on the camera. Even I find this, you know, difficult shelley's judging me as I'm I'm recording this I'm like where's your ring light?
Speaker 2:where's this? I know I want a little bit more. Look at my background. Okay, look at that. That's how it should be. Yeah, even down to my painting doesn't have glass on it, so it's not reflective.
Speaker 1:Yes, Well, that's the thing with my glasses, isn't it? I just choose the parts that I decide to put videos for.
Speaker 2:So you can get non-reflective glass now.
Speaker 1:I do, I do.
Speaker 2:Your next prescription. It doesn't cost any more.
Speaker 1:Just get the non-reflective glass in your glasses when you get your next prescription, and it'll just be easier for you yeah, and I think this is these are the little things, yeah, the tiny little things, but they make such a difference. But there's one thing that I have noticed specifically that makes a huge difference is the pauses when you talk, and someone that likes to fill every blinking gap with some kind of word, because one I talk too quickly, there's no room for pauses, and like how much emphasis that can have. I've had to really teach myself to to slow down and when I was recording my program, god, I felt so, I felt so slow and I'm like then I had to. When I got excited, I have to like reel it back in.
Speaker 2:That's also your spicy brain. So the fact that you even listen to all of your audio books at 1.5 freaks me out. I can't even imagine that. And I also because you know I do voice recordings. I know how important pausing and storytelling is and I'm like if you're playing me at 1.5, I'm a chipmunk Like it's just there's zero, there's zero.
Speaker 2:However, if you think about it, instead of saying I want to fill every second and I've got so much to say, by pausing and letting other people digest it, you're going to have more impact. So you, you start using your voice as a tool. You start thinking I mean, we're all using our brain, but you forget about your tongue and throat and your mouth. And once you actually do a few things like I get people to do physical exercises to warm up their jaw and their tongue and their mouth, which seems crazy, but think about it, it's warming up. If you were doing a marathon, would you not warm up before you ran? Of course, 100%. So you warm up your face and even by doing that, it will slow everything down because the hinge in your jaw. After stretching it will be more malleable. Things like that really help. After stretching, it will be more malleable, like things like that really help.
Speaker 2:And I always say to people that we love being told stories when we were kids Like I've got so many great memories of snuggling up with mum and dad and being read a story. There's something really special about someone who tells a story. Well, you find that they're funnier. Well, you find that they're funnier. You find that they're more authoritative and all of that sort of feeds into using your voice, using your pausing, and you you do things like you talk really quickly if you've got something that you really want to get to and then you pause and then you deliver the line and that has the impact. So it's not saying that you can't be fast. You can, because the thing is you just don't want to be one speed for everything, because you just can't let it register when it's. It's like that, it's like someone. If they were monotone the whole time, that would drive you crazy as well, you know but this is you know, this is you know.
Speaker 2:This is all actually kind of joyful for me too, because I um, I started my career as a journalist for ABC radio in Melbourne, and I was a crime reporter.
Speaker 1:So yeah, you had to talk, no, I was at murder scenes and oh, right, yeah, yeah exciting, like it was.
Speaker 2:Just I would do a lot of my reports and because it's like adrenaline and there's a dead body over there and oh, right opposite yeah, yeah, yeah but because when I started my my um career, I started ABC radio.
Speaker 2:They were so strict on voice. So therefore, because we were newbies, we had one hour of voice training every single week. Now, let me tell you that was like torture for me and the ladies that taught the voice teachers I was 19 at the time, maybe 20. And they would have me in tears like for sure, because that was so scary.
Speaker 2:I thought that they were about 90, but knowing that I was that young, they were probably 40, you know. But they had these gnarled arthritic knuckles and you'd have to sit there and read a fake bulletin. And if you didn't pause, if you didn't, uh, use the right inflection, like if you ended with an upwards inflection, which sounds like a question, instead of a downwards inflection, which sounds finished, they would take a one-metre ruler and slam it on the table next to it.
Speaker 2:Wow, now that is so old school. Totally would not happen these days. But they hit around you and you know, and I'd end up in tears. So I had about four years of voice training and now I and I hated them, but now I wish I could find them again and hug them and just say what you taught me was more valuable than my journalism degree. They taught me how to control my nerves, how to control my voice, how to tell a story well and how to breathe, because a lot of people just do that shallow breathing to the bottom of their throat don't actually get into their lungs, and I use that in every single aspect of my life.
Speaker 1:Now it's crazy kid, you don't want to be taught no and it's funny because I used to do I did dancing song dance for a little while, so like there was like I did like a whole two years in voice lessons and things like that, and it's like the whole thing about breathing through your lungs, not your diaphragm, and all of this type of stuff. And I remember the same thing is I obviously didn't go to the levels that you did and I just but I remember them going to like extreme depth. We used to have like hold our breath and stuff like just weird things like that. But I think we talk about this and you know, if there's someone that's listening, that goes. Well, I don't need to know this stuff. I suggest you go. What's the TED Talk we were talking about, where there's a guy who delivers?
Speaker 2:this. Oh yeah, he does an entire TED Talk that says nothing. He says literally nothing, but it's so entertaining.
Speaker 1:I know and you watch the whole thing like 20 minutes he gets up. He even tells us he's speaking about nothing. He says I'm going to talk about nothing.
Speaker 2:And you're going to be really interested because I'm going to rush to a point here and then I'll pause, and then I'll bring my voice down.
Speaker 1:It's so, so, so, fascinating. You'll have to put it in the show notes because, oh, I will, I absolutely will. The first person I think I went to when I saw that was you and I was like yeah have you seen this?
Speaker 1:because this is like so good and you want it, because you just want to know what he's about to do next, and it's like even the this is a statistic on the slide and I'm gonna sit here and let you look at that for a second and I'm like this is insane, like it's crazy.
Speaker 1:But how much you are, I guess, engrossed in what he has to say when he literally has nothing to say and even when there are so many people out there with amazing things to say, but it is always in the delivery. Now it's funny because I was watching some stories yesterday and there are people that you stop and watch and there are people that you just skip past, and I think stories is probably one of the biggest places that you could use this skill set, if anything, and obviously, if you're doing video or you're doing podcasts, they're also really important as well. But I feel that you're constantly speaking to the camera. The story aspect of it is developing that like long-term, everyday you know storytelling process and it's such a great way to practice how to deliver a message or how to deliver a story.
Speaker 2:And I also tell people when I'm training them to start doing it, on stories that disappears after 24 hours, because you can make your mistakes, you know like just get confidence up there and then if you get one of your stories that you really nail, put it on the grid, make it a reel.
Speaker 2:Yes, so, don't put the pressure on yourself to be perfect all the time. I think what we're finding, particularly now, is we want people to be polished, but not perfect. So I just want to see the best version of you. I want you to be authentic for me. Yes, when I'm talking about presenting, I'm making sure that I am representing what I sell. When you see me on the dogs on the dogs on the beach, not on the dogs and now that I have said, get that visual, everyone's got the visual. But this is what I mean is you can. You can have two sides to you, and what I say is I don't ever want anyone to be word perfect, because that just sounds robotic.
Speaker 2:What I like to do is teach people to learn, like the three points they really want to get across, and then give themselves permission to see how it comes out. You know what your structure is. You know what the backbone is, just add the flesh is. You know what the backbone is, just add the flesh. And once you get comfortable with doing that, it just makes speaking off the cuff or into Instagram. You know, live directly so much easier. It's actually a great learning tool to use social media in that way.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and I think it's interesting. Shell and I just went to Business, chicks Moves and Breakers. I think it's interesting, shell and I just went to Business, chicks Moves and Breakers. There was a part where one of the girls got up to or one of the women I should say got up to ask for something, but she stumbled around on what she wanted and Az, who was on stage, our friend, azure Internet was like what do you want? It was like what is it? It's like the notebook. When Ryan what's his name? What's his name? Ryan Gosling says yeah, he's like what do you want? She's like I don't know.
Speaker 1:It was like it felt. It felt like a scene out of that, but it was really, I think, important for a lot of women in that room to see that because it was. I think so many of us speak like that uh, we are, we aren't assertive, we've been told not to be assertive. So, coming back to what you said about, you know, women not having that ability to, I guess, have the confidence or the assertiveness in what they need and want comes across as fluffing around the point and it was so interesting when she finally said it.
Speaker 2:Everyone cheered because they thought it was hilarious, yeah, but it was just so many people do that in stories.
Speaker 1:It's like they want to say something, but they're A. I mean, if you're watching our stories on your one and only, or on Tara Ladd, like, you know that I'm delivering shit straight up, don't care, that's actually our delivery anyway, it's all about it, it's our brand. Yes, it's totally on brand. But if you don't know how to deliver your message in a way that is on brand, then do what shell just said and learn how to do that, because it's actually damaging if you get on and you stuff around with it, because and I put a post up yesterday actually about how the brain actually encodes information um, so it's tactile, obviously. What you touch is one. Another one is visual, obviously auditory is one of those things, and then the last one is semantic. So interpretation and so voice actually covers two of those things yeah, isn't that interesting.
Speaker 2:And I think, particularly women, we tend to undersell ourselves and we let the imposter syndrome sit on our shoulder and say you're not good enough, you don't deserve to ask for this. And I think once you start going, I acknowledge that that's all there and I'm going to tell it to fuck off. Yeah, I'm going to do it anyway. And once you do that a few times, you realize that you can and I've had. I mean, it's happened to me. I, um, I was hosting Talking Married, which was the after show about Married at First Sight, and it was a big deal for me. It was a live show, it was an hour, we had to read autocue, we had to interact with guests, like it's sort of, and you've got a director in your ear. It is like patting your head and rubbing your belly and tap dance at the same time. Now, this one day we'd been completely micromanaged to the point where the ceo of channel nine wanted to see our scripts. Yeah, maths is a big deal at channel nine anyway, what's, you know, the perfect storm.
Speaker 2:We didn't have time for rehearsal because everything was changing. We uh. Normally you have your scripts and it's there as a backup in case autocue doesn't work. But it was the day that channel nine had decided to be environmentally friendly and only do anything from a printer on both sides. But you can't flip a script and know whether you flipped it or not while reading, while trying to keep your body together anyway, there's too many decisions my brain just melted down and I just it was five minutes before we went to air and I just started sobbing, sobbing.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I can't do this. And the director and the executive producer ran down, called for makeup because I'm crying my makeup off. And my boss who I loved she was like what is going on? We've got you. You know, you are great at this, and I'm like I'm a fraud, I don't know what I'm doing. And she's like oh my God. Anyway. So she was just like no, this is, we believe in you. You need to believe in you.
Speaker 2:So I actually had to do some of my own training and just sit myself down with a makeup artist. I said I didn't want anyone to talk to me and I just did some breathing exercises and I was just like whoever is giving me all that negative talk in my own head, they can take a hike. And then I sat on that desk and I delivered and I did not make one mistake in that hour. You shook it off. I was driving home bawling my eyes out. I couldn't even remember the show, like I was so stressed, oh, wow. And then I got home and Darren, my husband, was like hey, great show. And I'm like you, wouldn't. You know nothing and he's just like we. Uh, no one could see that like you were great the next day because I was just like I don't know if I can ever do tv again. I've just melted down in front of everyone and she gave me some amazing tips.
Speaker 2:Which was one which I loved was fact or fiction. So when I had the my own negative self-talk in my head saying you're a fraud, you can't do this, she said can you end? Can you end that sentence with your honor? So I can't do this, your honor. I'm sorry, miss Horton, but I believe you've been on TV for 30 years, in fact. You can do this. So, just separating the fact and fiction. And if you had to defend that negative self-talk, could you actually defend it? Um, it just makes you almost laugh at how awful we are to ourselves and that there's no facts behind it.
Speaker 2:But you know what, having things like that, where things go completely wrong, it kind of then helps for the next time. So if it does go wrong, you've got in your memory bank. Well, I survived that one. I could probably survive this one, and also to rely on yourself and just go. They are not. This is not one hour of my career, this is 30 years of my career that I'm just doing for an hour and it was really, really helpful. But oh, not what you really want to do, break down no, you don't.
Speaker 1:But you know what's cool about that. It's like it's kind of like that case of like quantity the more you do, the less the probability. It's like. You know, I got rejected a hundred percent of the time when you make two calls.
Speaker 1:Great, you know now make a thousand calls and see how many calls you get, then that that percentage changes, as what I see from so many people like I have for the last and we were we were discussing this prior to hitting record is that we're talking about how much we have both changed and shifted what we've been doing with ourselves as an identity, but also what we do within our careers over the last 18 months. But it's been constant adaptation of of doing and trying new things to figure it out. And you know, I've created our program and it would have been nothing like what it is now had I actually built it out when I would. With what I'd started, it was putting things out and going, oh, that didn't work, I'm just gonna try something else. Oh, that didn't work, and you have to get comfortable with getting five likes or six likes or who cares right, and it might not be the case.
Speaker 2:It's also then take notice of when you get a lot of likes and go oh, that's what they're interested in. They will really like it when I'm giving information as an expert, or they really like it. One thing that I'm a little bit concerned about is my followers love it when I'm giving information as an expert, or they really like it. One thing that I'm a little bit concerned about is my followers love it when I'm sick. They just love it, I feel like when I'm sick. So if I'm in a hospital or something, everyone wants a piece of it.
Speaker 2:But I said, it's like, instead of Mew Chowsons by proxy, it's Mew Chowsons by social media. For me, you're right. However, what I've learned is, whenever I have been in hospital over the past five years, it's been to do with my perimenopause and menopause, and so it's actually that they want to see how I've coped, they want to know what went wrong, they want to know how I'm going to handle it, and I tell them and I share that information. So, again, learn from what doesn't work and also learn from what does work. I always love thinking of you know, make a spaghetti, throw it against the wall, see what sticks.
Speaker 1:Usually it's all it is, and you have to get comfortable with people just not liking you as well. You're not here for everyone.
Speaker 2:And God. I don't like everyone, so how could they all like me?
Speaker 1:No, and I think that this is the thing, isn't it? It's fear. It always is it's fear. It's fear that stops people from taking a risk on themselves or investing in themselves, because they just simply don't believe they can. Like, the ones that will invest big money with us are like shit, yeah, I've got this. I know that this is going to be worth it, because they know that they are the ones that are going to make a difference, and it always shows, and I think when you have the plan to get there, you can do it better. Like you know, they go to you, they learn how to talk, they go hang on a second. I've known what to say the whole time. That hasn't been the problem. It's been how I deliver that. That hasn't been the problem. It's been how I deliver that. And so what they say, it's not what you say, it's how you say it, how you say it.
Speaker 1:Hugely, like it's just been the case.
Speaker 2:I had a woman who runs a very successful PR company in Sydney and she is always sending me her clients for like five years. And she finally came along and did some work with me and in the middle of the session she burst into tears. She's just like and did some work with me and in the middle of the session she burst into tears. She's like how can? I've run my business for seven years and I can't even describe what I do. And so she was.
Speaker 2:I had to really break it down and then build her back up again because I'm I believed in her more than anyone else. And then so she, she basically by the end of it she was back in control but still had a little bit of the wobbles. She rang me two weeks later and said I have just landed three new clients in one week. Because now I know what I'm talking about. I know how to describe my business in one sentence, I know how to give an example that would be relevant to them because it paints a picture. And she's just like why the hell didn't I do this years ago? So I love hearing stories like that, where you can really make a difference to someone with the skills that I've got, and then you know, vice versa, I come to someone like you and go I'm not that great at branding. Can you help me? You know so it's just finding, working with each other, finding each other's skills and just going. I can't be good at everything. Help me be better in these areas where I'm I'm not great.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and it's what I find is it's it's a pairing of fear and it's a pairing of ego, and asking for help can sometimes be an ego thing. I've noticed this a lot as well. I've had people come recently and finally ask a question. I've been wanting to ask you for ages, but I feel like I should know this You're never going to know what I know. I'm never going to know what Shell knows, because we are completely different people.
Speaker 1:We've had different experiences, different educations, and it doesn't matter if we sit within the same space, like some of my biggest clients at the moment are within the design space doing our program, and that's because I'm teaching them how to do what we do. And when you do that, you essentially learn and then you know what we do and what you do, and then you know more than me. So it's kind of like it's not about who knows the most, because if someone says that they know everything, they actually are a liar, because no one is an expert of anything and we're constantly changing and adapting. But I think, as we see technology move forward, the biggest things and I'm shouting this from the rooftops, we've been doing it for ages it's always going to come down to human-centric brand, human-centric presence, people at the core of everything you do, human behavior 101, and we're seeing that shift into people trying to outsource to ai. I frick it, by the way. I freaking love ai, that shit's open every day, all the time.
Speaker 2:But I've also trained my ai correct my voice with what I do. So it's about putting in the foundations. Did you know that chat GPT trolled me the other day?
Speaker 1:so did it yes, did you ask it to to roast you okay. I know what it's like. I've heard that you can do that I can't deal with it.
Speaker 2:Yeah, no, I was writing a story, and so what I would often do is like I would do the interview and transcribe it, feed it into ChatGPT and say you know, shape this into a story using quotes, and then it spits it out. It's normally like 80% okay, and then I go and tweak it and massage it. However, this time it was. I think it might have even been a story about the weighted vest that I've been doing, which is was great for women with perimenopause, because it's weight training while you're just doing your walk. And they and chat gpt said something like um, um, the entrepreneur who created this loves helping people as much as I love the limelight.
Speaker 1:It said it in my own voice You're like do not talk to me like that self.
Speaker 2:Do you? I spoke down but in fact made me laugh so much.
Speaker 1:You're like that's fair.
Speaker 2:Wow, I really have fed it all the information, yeah.
Speaker 1:It knows.
Speaker 2:And also it doesn't.
Speaker 1:I never want to put it down the mic. Yeah, it only knows because you've given it that information right.
Speaker 1:Like, if you tell it to write something completely off cuff, like it's going to write something random. So you have to have a level of experience and knowledge Like it's. Like. I had a conversation in the last podcast that we did where we spoke about the evolution of tech. It's not going to replace you. Even they've recorded my voice in an AI, which is interesting. Some things sounded okay, but it was those things that I don't know what. You know the term, yes, that stuff, yep.
Speaker 1:It was so out and I was like this is, and I'm so inconsistent I don't know how anything would be able to manage. I don't even know what I'm going to do next. There is no way a computer is going to know what I do next and I would fuck around and do something different just to piss it off a little bit. But I think that it's like, if we think that and this is why economists can never get, economists can never get it right is because they can never predict how people are going to feel at the time of an event. Therefore, you actually cannot predict what will happen. So ai will never know, because humans are just so pending on the environment, um, you know, and everything that we know and what we've been brought up to believe. So it's amazing. It's amazing technology. What I use it for is more of an articulation of thoughts. Here's what I'm thinking what is? Can you please summarize this? And then it gives you like a, and then you're like okay. So I find it really good for things like that.
Speaker 2:But yeah, you know it's never going to replace totally, and so I find it really good for things like that, but you know, it's never going to replace.
Speaker 1:And so I think that having these skills is something that will always outweigh, also, the one-to-one human connection. When I was studying understanding the brain at Wharton, during that time you know it was 2023, early last year, they were actually trying to bring in ways to connect with people via screen, because there's things that you just actually cannot reproduce through the screen. So, you know, touch human touch, oxytocin and the ability to look someone in the eye um and you know I hate looking people in the eye but there is still that element of you having that connection. Walking past someone, going, how are you going?
Speaker 1:and touching them on the shoulder Like that stuff is, is real, and the biggest, I guess, response that for me, that I've had with people is actually those in-person panels and talking to people in front of a crowd and having that one-on-one connection is the social, you know, that social element that I will never, will never reproduce, and so having the ability to speak well, to be able to articulate yourself well, is always, leaps and bounds, going to be something that will never go, you know, be replaced by technology, as much as people try and make it happen. It's. It's something that I think is so important, so we'll.
Speaker 2:It'll be hybrid. So you know, I do 80 of my Channel 9 crosses via Zoom. This is my room, this is what I, but because I know I have to be looking directly at the green dot for it to look like I'm having eye contact.
Speaker 2:That means I miss out on body language cues, correct. I miss out on things like that. And when I'm in the studio it's always so much looser because I'm kind of like, ooh, it's playtime and that's because I feel like, oh, I can breathe, I've got people I can see, and because the cameras are all in different angles, when you're doing, you know, something like live TV, when the camera's not on you, you can be saying I've got something to say, and then they'll sort of do a nod and then they'll throw to you, whereas you can't do that via zoom no yeah, but this is where it's adapt or die, like you've got to be up with the latest technology, you've got to be an early adopter and you don't have to master it, but you need to at least know how to use it, because there'll be situations like mine, where my job changes and therefore I have to be able to communicate well on Zoom.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and I think what you do I don't think will ever go out, and I think it's the same at the moment, with and like I'm saying to people, I think what the problem is that people have been so used to being able to sell things really easily, right, let's face it like prior to that it's been pretty easy, there's been no issues, the market was probably in a really good place leading into COVID, you know um, and then we've seen massive changes to the market and so what we're seeing now is the pinch of people really thinking about what they spend their money on, which means that we need to be on top of our messaging, where we're positioned, how we differentiate exactly what you were saying before, how you sell yourself to people, why they they should buy from you, and all of that just boils down to who you are as a person and the connection that you have. Brand is connection. Whether you're a personal brand or a business brand, it comes down to that. You know that connection piece. And if there is no personality, there is no you know story and there is no you know, I guess, visuals of, of of how you look, sound and and think then people are just going to ignore you because there is nothing to you know, connect with um.
Speaker 1:And I think when you talk about, I guess, technology and you know the evolvement of it, is that we've always been okay. So we were like, yeah, we sell design identity and people used to come to us and then we were like, okay, but now a lot of people sell design identity. And then we look at, now tech is able to kind of reproduce some things here, right, so then you needed to and this is when I've always had it, but I never really needed to use it was that I actually had to start to sell my thinking, and that's something that people don't have when you do, tara but this is the thing, that's what we want, also because I'm a friend of yours, I get that in person all the time and so customers may not.
Speaker 2:So you've got to now bring that out and actually share it, because then it's like oh, I want that on my brand and this is where it's at right.
Speaker 1:I think that everyone's like, well, why would they want to work with me? It's like, actually cool, I know that you could probably do that for me, but I love the fact that you know that person might be a mother and they only work three days a week because their lives are so freaking hectic. And if I call you and say, hey, sorry, my kid's sick, you're going to be like, oh good, pressure, and it's finding those people that you align with and I think that that all boils down to this. I think and obviously you've heard Shell tell us a few things today of these beautiful stories that we have, because we're just so in tuned to remember things based on storytelling. It's you know, someone could give you a complete lie, but you're more than likely to remember the lie than if someone was to read you a script of factual information. Probably it's a bias.
Speaker 2:I'd like to do that experiment illusionary truth effect.
Speaker 1:It's like it's a whole thing if they can remember in. So if you have to, when you tell a story, you have to say it in a narrative where there's parts where people you know it's like the peak end rule as well. They'll remember the end, the beginning, the end and the most important part within the middle.
Speaker 2:So you know, that's kind of like the custom chain. I always teach the three points because there's also something in the brain that if you give four points you feel a little bit off kilter, because we are so used to start middle ending entree, make third three act play.
Speaker 1:Like we feel very comfortable with three points. So the rule of it's the rule of three, so isn't it's called the rule three?
Speaker 2:yeah, yeah, there's a design rule of three, and then there's a speaking rule of three as well, yeah, um. So, yeah, it's. It's just. Look, I it's all so interesting and it's one of those things that you're always going to be have room for improvement. You're always going to be able to room for improvement. You're always going to be able to get better, and it's just by actually putting yourself out there, maybe doing some training and then putting it into practice and being brave and saying to yourself, instead of only putting my ideas forward by email, at the next work meeting, I'm going to stand up and deliver it. Yeah, little things like that can end up making a huge difference, because people will listen to you more if you're speaking your ideas.
Speaker 1:I agree with that, and I think the biggest opportunities that I have had have been having conversations with people in big events that I fucking, to be fair, I did not want to be at, and there's so many things that, and it's, it is. It's like, oh, I do, I deserve to be fair, I did not want to be at, and there's so many things that and it's it is. It's like, oh, I do, I deserve to be in this room and even with so, shell and I are in this bit women's business group. Um well, it's, it's. It's kind of like our own thing. It's a little chat. There's like 25 of us in there or something, and even at the start of that, I was very quiet and I was like sussing people out, like can I, what can I say around these people, and I think that this is something that we need to.
Speaker 1:You know, look at, when we kind of enter a room is to stay engaged. And then, once I kind of got to know them, I was like loud and proud and out there, as I'm usually, and everyone was like, oh, where is that person hiding? I'm like, well, under the depression for a start, but here I am, out and fly, and I think it's like yeah, yeah, and it's just like and then you kind of become the person and then that's what people remember, it's that.
Speaker 2:And then the first thing is like oh yeah, I had perimenopausal depression, and so then we have a connection point like that, and it's just. This is where I just love it, because in person you have no idea where a conversation is going to go, you have no idea who is going. I really want to, you know, use you for my business. I can't afford it right now, but as soon as I can, I'm going to be coming back to you. They're thinking that they may not say it to you, but just you having these brilliant ideas or just being open about Ari's struggles and stuff like that. Like, yeah, all these new connections. And I just think that women in particular are very open to having connections from completely different areas of their life, which I love, because if I had friends who are only journalists, I would just be wanting to stick a fork in my eye.
Speaker 1:You know there's only sort of oh, totally right, the dynamics, yeah yeah, and they cross over. I would just be wanting to stick a fork in my eye. You know there's only sort of oh, totally right, the dynamics, yeah yeah, and they cross over, like there's. They always cross over and it's like I call them group, a friend segmentation. Where you've got you can't talk to your friends that don't own a business because they just don't understand the complexities of that. And you know, when you're talking about parenthood with someone that doesn't have a kid, like it's fucking boring, let's face it, they don't want to know I don't want to hear about it.
Speaker 2:Yeah, she doesn't care.
Speaker 1:Yeah, it's like that's great and I actually really love that, for her to be completely fair. And then we look at those that you know are your friends, that you've grown up with and well, sometimes you can go in and out with those people. They'll be the ones that stay the test of time and then they'll be the ones that you remember for certain parts of your life. And that's why friendships die, because we change as people. And then you get to the end and you're like hang on a second, we actually aren't on the same value anymore and I'm happy to let those friendships cut them off.
Speaker 2:But also because we're all so busy, I would rather have my small circle of friends that I give a lot of heart to, and, like, I have my best friend who lives one suburb away from me in the Gold Coast. We're friends from Sydney. She moved up here like a single white female, but we probably see each other once every two months. And we are one suburb away from each other, does not matter. Oh my God, as soon as we see each other, it's just like the life force, like it's like crossing the beams, it's amazing. And we just get everything out. She's got two kids, I've got two puppies, we, you know everything. All of that gets covered and there's nothing but love for each other. And then we go out and live our really crazy lives and then we get back together later and there's none of that. Oh, you didn't text me or you didn't call. Oh, yeah, none of that. I've got no time for that.
Speaker 1:no, sorry, it's yeah, no, and I think those friendships you've, you know that they're. They're tested for longevity because it's more than just who does what and what time, it's genuine connection and that's what I think that after. I think everyone you know heard my rant about it when we were away, but I think that everyone has gone through an identity shift post-COVID. As much as they say whether they did or not, you cannot go through something like that worldwide and think that you come out unscathed. Even if you were, so we were financially great. To be completely fair, during COVID we weren't impacted at all.
Speaker 1:Where the impact to us happened was post COVID, when I was pregnant with Bly, so that was more like late. So we were in lockdown with Bly when I had him and then it was like the next year and then it was like the knock-on effect from COVID. But then I was not in the right frame of mind to be dealing with how to think and strategize and then that was my downfall of trying to keep the team on at a time when I probably should have let them go. And so it's. You know they say it's like your where you are right now is based off the decisions that you made 12 months ago and we're seeing it all kind of come back now.
Speaker 1:So I think that if anyone's listening, thinking that you can just instantaneously, you know, become this new thing in a 24 hour period, and I don't, if Shell and I have not taught you anything over this I don't know how long we've been talking for now 40 minutes. I don't know what else will but it is a progressional thing. These things take time to build. These things take time to build. These things take time to grow. You're not going to become a brilliant speaker. You know, one day after you learn a new thing. It's constant involvement and training and practice and it's, like you know, becoming an athlete, yeah, someone.
Speaker 2:That's the perfect example, actually, because someone described doing like my speaking training as venus williams and serena. Serena Williams didn't do one tennis lesson. Yes, you know, like you can't expect to be perfect at it after one go, and I always tell everyone to do the training in the afternoon with me, because their brains are mush by the end because they're trying to think about calming their nerves and their body language and their face and get the messages out and organize their thoughts and it's a lot. So most people just sort of collapse in a heap and I've I've trained some ceos who were supposed to, you know, head off to a really important meeting and I'm just, like you know, we're rescheduling this because this is a, this is a counseling session. If you, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, you will need mine yes, and you know what.
Speaker 1:It's really interesting these things, because you don't realize how much of of an impact it has on your identity. Because there is it's, it's the fear of something. It's like when we, when I do talk to business owners, I'm like the reason that you haven't grown yet is actually there's, there's a block there, um, and it's either you're too scared to do something or you don't think that you can do it or you're stopping yourself. And I always say, like, when you go to get up and you go to do a story or something and you feel embarrassed, who is it that's making you feel that way? Like there's always a person, but there's always a person, right? Oh, you think someone from your past.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yes, yes.
Speaker 1:So I found out who and I was like, oh really, but I can always, instantly, there'll be people that come to my mind and then I just have to, you know, and if they're following you and they're, just get rid of them yeah, I think that sometimes it's not like a person, yes, so they don't even know that they're gone, you're not seeing any of their stuff.
Speaker 2:I love a good news. Yes, fantastic.
Speaker 1:All right, shel, we could keep talking for hours.
Speaker 2:I know we really could and I've absolutely loved it and thank you so much for having me on, because it's just it does for once, you know, via Zoom. It actually does feel like we're in person, because I have that connection with you where we can chat, for another six hours.
Speaker 1:So exactly what you just said then is really important. So, off the back of the program that I just ran, it was like done in your own time, but it was after I put the live workshop on. At the end, to get everyone together was when the conversation really started to happen. So that has changed the way that I now will do the next program, and it's putting in like a intro and then like something periodically, so that people are doing it together and I think, like you said, they're doing it together and a bit of a tribe, yeah, we, we just uh, wired for human connection, like it's just, it's just how it is so. But anyway, that's thought I'd bring that up. But okay, where can they find you? Where can they find you? Where can they find you?
Speaker 2:Okay, if you want to be part of my Speak With Impact workshops, you can actually just log in online to shellshockedmediacom and go to courses, and you can just book it online. However, I only have two workshops, with three spots each left for the entire year, because December's just sold out. So what I can do, though, is I can also do private, so I've had a lot of people go okay, I want to do it with my two team members, or I want to do it just with my business partner, so I don't want someone else, because this is, you know, private business information. We do that, and I also. Now I'm starting to working, starting to doing them in workplaces, so that's kind of exciting.
Speaker 1:Oh, awesome.
Speaker 2:It's all expanding almost a little bit too quickly, but that's all right. That's a good thing. Find out what you can do and chew like fuck yeah.
Speaker 1:Oh geez, all right. Thanks, shell. I'll drop all that information that we spoke about in the show notes, so if anyone didn't catch anything that we waffled on about, it'll be down there and we will chat to you all next week. See ya, did you like that episode? I hope so, because if you did, why don't you head over to whatever platform you listen on and rate and review? It's much appreciated and helps others know what we're about. If you want to follow us, you can find us at yourwannanonly underscore au on Instagram.
