Brand and Butter

The Unseen Influence: How Subtle Cues Shape Your Brand's Perception

Tara Ladd Episode 42

Ever wondered why some brands resonate with you while others fail to make an impression? Then strap in, because this episode speaks to the psychology that shapes brand perception.  We'll also touch on the roles alignment, appearance, and communication styles have in crafting the overarching brand image.

Psst, here is the link to our FREE 'Brand Action Plan' mentioned in the episode.


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Speaker 1:

you're listening to Brandon butter a straight-talking occasionally in your face no BS branding podcast for modern marketers and business owners here, for those who want to understand the influence and power of branding and how pairing associations, consumer behavior and design thinking can impact what people see, think and feel. I'm your host, tara Ladd, the sometimes funny, sometimes vulnerable and often unapologetically blunt founder and creative director of Brandon Design Agency. Your one and only Hi hi. Welcome to this week's episode of Brand and Butter. We are actually going to be diving into the psychology of brand perception together.

Speaker 1:

One thing that I think a lot of people negate to realize is that part of your identity process is creating the perception that you want an audience to see. And now you might hear all these big words thrown around all the time, but really it's a matter of you are the person to create the identity that sets your values, your alignment, who you are, what you stand for, what you look like, who you're trying to attract, the conversations that you lead, the way you speak. All of these things set the perception, and your customer or your audience then shape how they want to perceive you. It's up to you to create the narrative that they then perceive. So, for instance, if you are a high luxury brand, you're going to speak a certain way, you're going to look a certain way, you're going to have imagery. That's a certain style. You're going to have pricing. That then reciprocates. Everything falls in line. When people don't see the value in a high-end product, it's usually because what they've put out doesn't match what they're seeing. And so this is when we dive into different circumstances of behavior and how people see and think, but more specifically, bias, stereotypes, societal narratives and alignment and positioning.

Speaker 1:

So you can start to see how brand strategy really plays a big role in how people well perceive you and marketing. It's up to them to well. They coincide right. So marketing works together with brand to make sure that the overarching conversation stays the same. So marketing then take the brand strategy and they put it to market and they then create content and align to the overarching story. Everything needs to stay on brand, and you may have heard that before, but when you hear people say, stay on brand, it's a set of rules and values that you have placed, guidelines to keep cohesion, stay consistent, because the minute that you start to sound different, look different or, you know, be different, then there's a bit of a disconnect in trust or how people think of you, and one thing that's really important to know is that brand and marketing are not the same thing. So the way I explain it is and I mean it's up for debate, but the way I explain it is brand is who you are and marketing is telling people who you are, but marketing plays a huge role.

Speaker 1:

A lot of people have always said that brand is a subset of marketing, and I completely disagree with this and anyone in brand will completely disagree with this as well, and brand has evolved so you can have both brand and marketing as separate. But really the brand is what people buy into, and when I say separate, I mean you've had businesses that have worked before and haven't had a huge brand presence. It means that they are just a sales engine and that can work too, but without even realizing. There is some form of brand connection that's involved there, whether that's customer service or some kind of connection, but it just hasn't been documented. And what I really noticed is when I began your One and Only in 2017 is the rise of the purpose-driven brand. Prior to that, it was all real you know profit first, and then you kind of looked at how to weave in a narrative, but the big brands have always really known this and that's why they've always been a big brand and we look at it as though. Well, basic evolution, right so, but prior to, you have to look at the adaptation of of the world and how we've evolved in the introduction of technology and user-generated content. You know know, basically prior to web 2.0 and social media platforms was basically this old school 8-bit style, not that bad, but you know, website, which spoke at you about really boring stuff like here's our about page. We've had 50 years experience, blah, blah, blah, blah. But then now you've seen this whole evolution of people needing to really say more than that. Now there are micro categories of why people are buying into you. Is it what you stand for? Is it how you execute? Is it the product that you sell? Is it the people that you stand for? Is it the reputation that you lead by? Is it the culture that you set like? All of these different things are actually pockets of gold to creating a wider perspective and perception of what people think of brand. So marketing is really upholding that value and they will dive into. Sometimes.

Speaker 1:

The key role of a strategist is to find where your people are and dive into the ways that you can execute strategically and tactically, and by that I mean short-term, long-term marketing approaches. So if your goal is to become X, y, z in terms of your brand, then marketing then works to make sure that that happens. So it's like you have a business plan and then you set a brand plan and then in comes the marketing strategy, which is constantly evolving and so should brand. But really it's kind of like you set the brand and the tone and you tweak it and you make sure that those conversations constantly evolve and adapt. But marketing then take over in how it's executed and it all really like plugs into one another. And so the way I say it and if you've listened prior, you would know that it's like your, your five p's, and you know p's are marketing as well, but it's also part of brand. You've got your, your purpose and what it is that you stand for, and I've dived into this.

Speaker 1:

You know positioning and personality and perception, and then promotion obviously is executing that. But what we're not really understanding is what that perception really means. What do you want people to think about you? And prior to setting that perception, you need to understand who your audience is to begin with, and then you need to look at how you wanna position yourself so you speak to that audience. And then you look at segmentation. If you are a brand that is speaking to a wider market, you want to make sure that you've segmented messaging to align to each individual market.

Speaker 1:

For instance, one of our clients was in events and we're speaking to marketing managers managers, but also investors and also creative agencies and how you would speak to each one of those audiences changes because there is a different motivation and driver for why someone wants to work with you. This is obviously service and we're looking at this from their perspective only. But when we're looking at like what's the ego driver for why someone wants to work with you, you start looking at much deeper things. So, for a marketing manager, for instance, we're looking at ROI, roi budgets and how is this going to pay off long term and is this a good investment? And then we're looking at creative agencies that are like this is our big idea. We want to make sure that we're getting like award winning recognition for this. And then there's the investors, who are we want to look like. We're looking at creative agencies that are like this is our big idea. We want to make sure that we're getting like award-winning recognition for this. And then there's the investors, who are we want to look like we're forward-thinking innovators in putting our money in the right place so that it shows that we are, you know, forward thinking in the investment space.

Speaker 1:

Each single, you know each one of those categories have different intentions. However, the overarching brand story message still aligns to all of them, but it's how you then tweak and frame the message to speak to each one of those audiences that will get you in the door with those people specifically. So this is why audience is so important, and it's also why you need to make sure that you are appealing to a wider demographic but, at the same time, catering and tailoring messaging that speaks to each individual market. And so then we start to look at positioning strategies, which is where I think a lot of people are really struggling with at the moment, because, well, consumer spending has changed at the moment. Because, well, consumer spending has changed, we're looking at different people. Well, the same people, but being different, I guess, consumers, the way that they spend and what they value has changed.

Speaker 1:

Over the last couple of years, we've seen huge political, social, environmental, emotional changes that have impacted how we think, act and behave as consumers. We've seen, you know, the wars, and in Ukraine and Gaza, israel, like all of these things have impacted where people want to be putting their money both good and bad, on both sides of the fence and so we're looking at this really big turn of events on where people are choosing to place their money, and it's a conversation that is, you know, it's touchy, but it's also something you don't have to speak to these conversations but there are definitely people that are using their money as a tool and investing in the right places. Because of that, that is obviously a much broader topic to speak to, but we're talking about values in terms of, I guess, maybe, inclusivity. Are you talking to a wider demographic or are you speaking to a wider demographic or are you speaking to a specific niche? People will put their money into what they believe in. It is always going to be an emotion over logic thing. If you are speaking about how it's not inclusive in an environment that speaks to health and they're not talking about women's health and we've got an older generation moving into conversations about women's health then notoriously you are going to alienate a market and they are not going to be investing in you in that space if you do not provide that service. Now that's not saying that you do or don't do that, but that is specifically why I guess values and beliefs and internal drivers and emotion really drive home where people will spend their money.

Speaker 1:

But one of the biggest things that people just don't understand is how much psychology is embedded into marketing. Now you know that people are like yep, but posting something and then hoping for the best is not a strategy. When you truly understand and you'll hear this all the time how your audience behaves, then you will really tap in and open up a whole can of worms. We're watching this happen in real time with our students in the brain lab at the moment, where we're diving into the intricacies of human behavior and stereotypes and how the brain works, and it's been really awesome to watch because it is just opening up these aha moments where they go oh, I didn't even think about that and it's like, of course you didn't, because it's a completely different way of thinking. And we look at cognitive bias. There's up to 150 cognitive biases, for instance, heuristics. Heuristics are your brain's shortcuts to making quick decisions. If we had to really analyze every single decision that we had presented to us on a daily basis, we would be completely overloaded. And so we look at heuristics as a way to and there are so many of those as well, but we look at this as a way to create a mental shortcut.

Speaker 1:

For instance, if I were to say and I think I've mentioned this before the word environment, what color comes to mind? Generally people would say green, and that's important to know, because we've just been, I guess, influenced by understanding that the wider demographic on environment says green, it's trees, it's health, it's growth, it's all about those things that represent that color. And then we bring in color psychology and then we start to look at and I've also mentioned this before like if we were to use a dental surgery for, you know, color, choosing colors for their identity, and you choose black and yellow. I said this in a event that we spoke to, that I spoke at recently, and I watched everyone's face like scrunch their noses up, and it was really funny because I was like exactly, exactly. Your faces will tell you what you're feeling without you even realizing, and the first thing that you think about when you think of yellow and black is like decay and mold and all of these associations to that color, that it actually fights against what you're trying to do with a dental surgery, with being clean and fresh and white and sterile, and so it's painting the wrong picture. So many people don't dive into this because, one, they don't know and two, maybe they're using the wrong people.

Speaker 1:

There is so much involved in this space and, you know, being a good executor in terms of design is not the same as being a good strategist, and they, they can, and that's why you have brand strategists which are different to you know, brand designers or copywriters they are. There are great people that can write well, but they need someone to write the plan. And there are great people that can think well but can't execute, and there are people that can do both. So it's important to know who you're using and who you're working with, because they will give you the right perception or help you to understand how to paint the right perception. And so we start to look at stereotypes. This is a conversation that we've been, you know, dealing with in society. It's just how we shape behavior and we look at. You know, for instance, what a badged car may mean and instantly we think of, that person makes money. So that's why someone will go out and buy a brand name car, because it positions them in a certain societal status.

Speaker 1:

There is so much involved in understanding what the unspoken meanings are with imagery and words and colors and fonts and how they depict certain associations, and without understanding what they mean and what they do and just choosing because you like them, you could be painting the completely wrong message without even realizing. And we look at it like if you want to be seen as a fun and humorous brand, then you need to be rocking up as a fun and humorous brand. Your typography needs to show different styles that represent fun. You're not going to have this really elegant styled, you know font because it's going to completely go against that fun of the brand, unless, of course, you're pairing a straight font, which is what I call like a serious font, with a really out there graphic style. So you could have really creative illustrations or imagery or color systems that then allow that font to be safe and structured and conservative, because the fun and humor comes from the other elements of what you put out. Or you could have a really punchy, humorous and ballsy tone of voice and style that challenges the norms, which gives you the availability to give a or to have a visual identity that can be slightly straight.

Speaker 1:

However, the two need to be shown together because if someone is to look at you on first glance, you have such a small time frame to be able to paint an image and you know that could just be as simple as putting a gif with a really funny saying, but a GIF in itself is the execution of creating something that isn't, you know, something that a high luxury brand would do. It's obviously something more pop culture referenced more along the lines of humor and showcasing a completely different representation of a brand compared to someone that is high luxury brand and it showcases that perception, and this is what we're looking at now. We're seeing. This is why it's important not to stick to a trend. I really hate designing to trends. I will try to always go against what a trend looks like and design to the structure and the creative strategy that we've developed, because if that structure then or sorry, if that framework and that strategy then go really well, then it doesn't matter what trends come in and out, because the strategy and the visual execution have aligned to create that perception. So things can come and go, but what it is is.

Speaker 1:

It's like wearing a set of clothes. If you are a specific type of person and you dress a certain way, it's going to depict a certain style. You know, if you're an urban style person and you rock up and you're in urban style clothing, then you can really paint that picture of that persona, but just by someone looking at you and they would shape that perception. However, if you went back inside, put yourself in formal, formal attire and walked out on the street, people would be like oh, that's a completely different image as well. So what we associate ourselves with and look like without even realizing shape, this unspoken narrative and its visuals are so important.

Speaker 1:

Words are so important, but the two work together. You can't have one without the other. Like a logo, for instance, is a symbol of the brand. It is not the brand, but it is a symbolic reference of the brand. So, without even having any words, that symbol can be represented across the globe as a universal language. When you see those golden arches in another country, you don't need to read the words McDonald's, you know that. That's what it is. And this is cross language. This crosses language barriers. I should say it's cross-cultural references, and this is why design matters.

Speaker 1:

We know that words matter. Words help to shape the meaning, but design helped to sell that meaning. Design helped to identify and they all come together. You can't have one without the other, and even when you like, if you were to. Well, for instance, my two-year-old if he is going to the pantry and he wants a biscuit, he knows very well which box is the oreo box. It is the blue, bright box. It's got the oreo on the front. All of that is a visual representation. He can't read yet. So words don't matter. Words matter to adults, while they're in there in the first place, but to kids they don't matter.

Speaker 1:

So we start to look at the communication methods that actually come into play without even being able to read the style of font, the way that it looks. This is why kids are drawn to big and bright and colorful things and and it's so much more the perception is so much more than just words. But words deeply matter. You cannot and I've had instances of this before where they have the best looking design but the message and the words just do not match and it sinks the brand. It's the same for photography, we've gone out, created amazing visual identities. The words, then also are amazing, and then the imagery that they've chosen has fallen flat. It is, you know, maybe it's self-done with their own cameras, but it just completely sank the whole overarching, you know, perception of the brand.

Speaker 1:

So what we need to consider when we're looking at what perception truly means is what is it that you want people to take away? On first glance? Because, as we're scrolling well, that works too. If we're scrolling scrolling well, that works too. If we're scrolling Instagram, we're strolling is what I meant to say the aisles of I don't know an alcohol shop, and we're looking for a bottle of wine to give someone for a gift, and we know they drink a certain type of wine, but really you don't know anything about wine. What do you choose by? Generally, the label.

Speaker 1:

If you know that that person is into high-end wines, you're probably going to look at a high-end type of label. If you know that person is creative and out there, you're going to choose something that looks creative and has a bit of contemporary style design to it. However, if you know that that person is also high-end, you're probably then going to look at price. So then, all of these people and all these factors come into place. You're looking for a high-end, like a high-end wine, and you look at the price point and the price point is $15. You're not choosing that bottle of wine. You're going to want something that is higher up and that, again, is a perception.

Speaker 1:

So brands that are out there and they're looking to get high ticket clients or want to people to respect them as being a high value brand, but their pricing is too low. They're not looking at you like that. They're actually seeing you as being cheap and there is a there's a whole psychology around. The psychology around this is actually crazy and we dive into this a lot more in many other things, but that is a whole different subject. But if we start to look at, say, confirmation bias, what we do when we're looking for something is we will go and source and look for things that confirm our own belief system. This is why it's so important to be you or represent a set of values, because you are more than likely to attract people that are wanting the same things that you do.

Speaker 1:

And it's when people are disjointed in trying to attract people and they're trying to be here for everyone is that they actually dilute their brand. They put too many things out. They have too many different product offerings. The things that have actually worked for you, one, and only recently, has been us going back and culling what we have on offer, like really cementing what we want to be known for, and that doesn't need to be this huge array of things. We want to be known as people that come up with the creative strategy, diagnose the problem, dive into the psychology of human behavior, bring that into the strategy and execute with a design system that then can be created in masters. So our goal is to create that really in-depth beginning stages of a brand or a rebrand and then help people to then execute that same mentality across creative campaigns and ideation and way to subcategorize through branded architecture. And if you don't know what that is, that's basically the things that sit and the sub brands that sit underneath your brand, and that's pretty much where we're sitting at the moment, and all that has done has bring us people back.

Speaker 1:

When you speak to everybody, you speak to nobody, and you may not think you're doing this, but when you're confusing someone about what you offer, it's usually done in this way, and one thing that we're seeing at the moment is just the overwhelm of so much choice. The moment is just the overwhelm of so much choice, and when you're so clear on who you are and what you have on offer and you repeat that same thing over and over again, what that does is it sets up the perception in your audience's heads. It doesn't set up confused messages. It sets up a really clear understanding of who you are, what you do, what you're about and what you're here for. And this is where a lot of brands are disjointed. They may have an amazing visual identity, but their audience isn't aligning anymore because their positioning is out, and so they may need to do a bit of a positioning, rejig, and sometimes it's never massive.

Speaker 1:

What we did with You're One and Only last year was diagnose our own problem, and that was that we always had work come in, but the market was becoming more narrowed into what they wanted, and so we had to meet them there, and that meant that we had to be more specific in the language and the style of wording that we used to attract our audience, and what that meant was that we had to speak to scaling businesses, so those that had been in business already and were wanting to grow, and that doesn't mean that we alienate those that were in that startup phase at all, but it did mean that we were looking to work with those that were already kind of familiar with what it is that they stood for, and then we broke apart their strategy. Now, how do you want to be positioned? We looked at our own frameworks, we looked at the gap in the market. We then dived into the white space analysis, which is finding a difference, by the way. We look at how you differ, what the other competitors are doing, and we dive into all of that stuff. Then we look at creating a brand strategy to align to the things that we find and these are things that we come up with together, as you know, as your agency and then from that we create a perception.

Speaker 1:

We did this with our own brand. So when we'd moved and aligned to a different audience and slightly repositioned, we then realized that what we were saying and what we were looking like slightly didn't match anymore. So then we had to ever so slightly evolve our identity to align to that. That meant we moved from a teal and white into a black, red and it's almost like a fawny kind of color. Call it taupe brand and you will see that now out and we then incorporated a different font and we looked at changing the style of graphic and the way that we executed that and it worked. Like you wouldn't believe, we've had huge traction from that, but this was a work in progress and we didn't do a big song and dance about our rebrand.

Speaker 1:

I believe that's a strategy in itself is figuring out how to promote the rebrand. For us, it was more about subtly upgrading and that was that we changed our logo to black, our old logo to black. Quite some time prior to that, anyway, there was a lot of black being used alongside the teal and white, and we just ever so slightly started to phase out the teal and bring in the red. Then we upgraded our logo and then we brought things in and our logo wasn't a massive change, it was just well. It just updated slightly. So we saw more curves in it. It was not as sharp around the edges. More curves in it, it was not as sharp around the edges. All of these things represented all of the direction, the direction that we wanted to go in, and we will crack that open one day and have a whole case study on our own rebrand, but it worked like it. It worked, thank god, because otherwise I'd be really shit at my job.

Speaker 1:

But yeah, what we saw was that that conversation that needed to start to change. So we worked with shannie Wildspark and she helped us to find some really good, powerful words that represented who we were like. Unpretentious was a really good one, you know things that represented who we were finding our own personality and that was the you know, the rebellious hero and having that archetype play out in language and style. And that was there anyway, but it just meant that we just hammered down on it harder. So how we showed up, why we showed up what conversations we were having, how we were having them, then executing it in a way that would tie into that narrative, and it all just started to work.

Speaker 1:

And then came the testing of the content that we put out. This shaped the perception. Then we needed to move into the more of the psychology driven style language, because we've been doing this for years. We just hadn't been speaking to it in a wider scope. So we needed people to know that. This is something that we specialized in and I personally have been studying for the past two years you know behavioral neuroscience and you know consumer behavior and, just recently, behavioral insights. It's at uni, like all of these things, like high level educational things, bringing into what we do and adding onto the experience that we've had over years and years of, you know, brand strategy and development and bringing that into the mix.

Speaker 1:

But it's the constant evolution of the brand, adapting and evolving, and therefore we needed the language to change, we needed the conversation to change, we need the narrative to change, we need the positioning to change, and we then moved from being, you know, a design agency into more of a solidified brand identity and strategic alignment, which we'd always said again anyway, but we wanted to make sure that people knew that it was the identity system, which doesn't just include the visuals. It is the brand, which is the DNA why you're here, and it's also the diagnosis. It's finding the pockets of gold and building the frameworks and understanding the nuance of why people are buying and just highlighting those factors in the development phases of a brand and also channeling that into brand marketing, which is continuing your brand story throughout marketing conversations. And so that's what we started to look at is that there are so many different things that we are involved in that we weren't talking to prior, and so what we're, what we're seeing from brands is they're getting stuck because consumers have changed their behavior and they need to change their behavior, but they haven't to the level that it needs to be changed at.

Speaker 1:

And what is required from that is big change, and by big change I don't mean like huge big, like rejigging everything. It means that it's internal change, like identity change, and looking inside and stepping outside your own biases to this is what we've always been known for. But are people seeing us for what we are now and are we attracting the right people? And if not, what is it that we need to now say and do to make sure that we do continue to attract the right people, and that could? What is it that we need to now say and do to make sure that we do continue to attract the right people? And that could be a rejig of your marketing strategy, or it could be that you're going back into your brand strategy, repositioning like we did, finding new ways to speak and then bringing out a new narrative that's still the same but slightly different, but levels it up so that you're attracting a completely different market.

Speaker 1:

The whole point of it is to build trust through transparency and authenticity and consistency, and that's done through the narratives that you have. It's done through the perception that you're showcasing and how you want people to perceive you. If you want to be seen as a high-level brand, you need to rock up as a high-level brand. You can't say you're a high-level brand and then have low-end prices. It doesn't connect. And this is when you see people's behavior change, because this is where different social, economical status plays a big role into how people perceive things. So if people don't have money, they are not going to spend like someone that has money. People that have money have a different mindset from people that don't have money, and so you need to speak the language of those people. And if you haven't been in that position, it's hard to actually attract those people because you haven't been in that place before, and so you need to study and understand different behaviors, different ways of speaking, and so you need to study and understand different behaviors, different ways of speaking, language styles, and it's so much deeper than what you think.

Speaker 1:

So I hope that touched on, I guess, a little bit about brand perception. It's not even touching the surface, but it's like understanding how consumers and your audience see your brand is so important into whether you build that trust and whether they actually make that purchase. Are they just looking at you as someone to gather information from, or are they seeing you as someone that is worthy of their money? And if they're not looking at you as someone that's worthy of their money, why not? And that's when you start to look at why am I not getting leads? And if you're not getting leads, the general reason is that there is a strategy problem. It should be easy. So strategy sells it, and by strategy that works across the board, it doesn't necessarily mean it's a brand strategy problem. It could be a marketing strategy problem, but what we've really seen these last few months is people really starting to invest back into brand now, and it's obviously.

Speaker 1:

We're at that first point of okay, where's the diagnosis? And that could just be a conversation. Where can we look at here? What's an audit? Where are some things that I need to focus on? Because, as someone in our space, we can identify the problem way before you can. If you're not in that space, you're identify the problem way before you can. If you're not in that space, you're not going to be able to identify. It's like saying that a junior doctor to identify what a senior doctor has, it's years of experience and understanding like the holes in what you're providing. And also we're stuck in our own biases. We see our things as being great and what we offer is better than everyone else's, when sometimes it could be the smallest thing that could be hindering your process. And sometimes it takes an outsider to come in and go. Have you thought about or have you looked at this? Or this is what I see when I see your brand.

Speaker 1:

So do a bit of an audit on your own brands and if you want to do this, we have our brand action plan, which is a PDF, free PDF. You can go and download it. It's on our website. If you, I'll pop the link in. I think it's in the links, but have a look in the show notes. But it basically gives you an understanding of what you need to include in a strategy from like and even like prior to that, like when you've got an idea.

Speaker 1:

Is your idea viable? How are you looking at things where you need to be focusing on? Because a lot of the times people say here's my, here's my business idea, we're now going to market. We've got our domain name, we've got our Instagram handles here I need a logo and now let's start selling. And they've missed this whole oh, this huge, huge part in the middle. Brand is so psychological. It's like the personality that you attract that brings in people, and it's the association and the belief systems and all of those things that are so deeply connected to human behavior and emotion. And if you haven't got it right, there's going to be a problem and you may have half of it right, but you want to make sure that it's all right and so go have a look.

Speaker 1:

If you are interested, go and download that. There's a whole bunch of things that I've put in that. It's actually really cool. Uh, even brand glossary at the end, because I felt I felt like I wanted to be generous and just explains things. You know, you hear all these bullshit jargon things and you're like what, what does that even mean? Well, I've just put three pages at the end because then you can kind of understand what they're talking about, so you can break through the crap.

Speaker 1:

If there's one thing that I want to do, it's just to help people to really understand on a base level, what brand is, because it's actually not that hard. You just need to know the pieces that are involved in it so that you can make sure that you're focusing on the right efforts instead of spending hours and hours and hours. You know, creating content that is clearly not targeting the right people and it could be just a slight tweak and then all of a sudden, your content blows up because you've just changed one thing. Sometimes it's just identifying the problem. So, anyway, that's this week.

Speaker 1:

I have some great things coming out over the coming weeks. I am really excited to share with you. But if you're not following us on your one and only, please go over and have a look. Some good things are about to come out there. Links will be coming shortly and if you want to get in touch, please feel free. You can slip into our DMs on you Want it Only, or you can get in touch with the links in the show notes below, but until then, I'll chat to you next week. Did you like that episode? I hope so, because if you did, why don't you head over to whatever platform you listen on and rate and review? It's much appreciated and helps others know what we're about. If you want to follow us, you can find us at youwantanonly. Underscore au on Instagram.

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